8mm Forum: Optical Sound Prints

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 06, 2017, 12:03 PM:

Moderator's Note: This was originally a sales thread that turned into a discussion of optical prints. Since there's quite a bit of good information contained here, I have moved it from Sales to this section. The Sales topic still exists here.
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The color is about a 7.5 to 8 out of 10. SlIghtly fade to what appears to be Kodak SP film stock, (the airlines tended to use Kodak SP for a good while after the rest of the film world switched to LPP), but still pretty good color!

[ February 07, 2017, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 06, 2017, 12:15 PM:

They always used the cheapest stock available where possible for these prints.

I suspect the discount wasn't passed onto the airline companies though by the distributors of these films.

Longevity, wasn't something that required any due consideration by the airline companies given the time span they expected to use these for.

I see the odd few on LF stock but not many.

I'm sure they'd be amazed to find out that even some of these are still being used occasionally!😂😂

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 06, 2017, 12:21 PM:

I remember well a post i read from my very first year on this forum, concerning an eye-witness account of a fellow visiting a british super 8 optical sound film lab, "Sunstrand" I think was the name of it, but i might be wrong ...

At any rate, he witnessed a studio exec who was witnessing a whole bunch of Super 8 optical sound prints that were used and being destroyed with an axe, so that they could never be used ever again.

I still get choked up by that story! [Frown]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 06, 2017, 12:30 PM:

The contract was accepted on the understanding that ALL prints should end their days like this, once the airlines had done with them.

It's only by virtue of some unscrupulous insiders that we ever got to own any of them.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 06, 2017, 12:44 PM:

Yeah, i'd LOVE to know, sometime in the future, as to just HOW they got ahold of them ...

heavens knows I'm happy that they were able to ...

Now, in the case of some of my optical sound super 8 prints, they are ex-library prints from South Africa, (Vera Cruz, Westworld, Pocketful O Miracles, Boy Named Charlie Brown, to name a few). A fellow down there just lucked onto a whole PALLETTE of them, in a warehouse, that was about to be destroyed and they were truly saved in the nick of time!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 06, 2017, 12:58 PM:

Looks like you've already dealt with one such guy then Osi! [Big Grin]

As with anything in life, money talks.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on February 06, 2017, 05:06 PM:

Were'nt some of these prints run through a bandsaw?

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on February 07, 2017, 10:59 AM:

They were destined to be destroyed & don't forget that this was the age of home video and any half decent film master which could be illegally copied was worth something to the pirates.

These high quality airline prints certainly would have been useful in the wrong hands back in the '80s, so studios were rightfully protective of their product (ie. destroyed them after intended use) albeit slightly laughable and a shame by todays standards.

The deal Derann struck which allowed limited copies of some titles to be saved from the axe and sold on to collectors was totally legit though and as we know saw such titles as "Lethal Weapon", "City Heat", "Spaceballs", "Over the Top" and "Little Shop of Horrors" being snapped up for perfectly legal home exhibition.

Although edited to be suitable for all audiences, these were all very high quality prints. Most sadly now faded, but truly exciting back in the day...

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 07, 2017, 11:59 AM:

Back in the day, Dave Thomas Films used to have quite a list of super 8 optical sound features, so i'm betting that he was able to get a good deal on a bunch of prints just lying about. There were some one of a kind feature that used to be on his list and, for all i know, they might have truly been only one of a kind of specific titles still existing.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 07, 2017, 12:06 PM:

Lethal Weapon for one, is still alright Rob.
City Heat was as well last time I saw it and that wasn't too long ago.

I can't speak for Horrors as I've never had that one, but though many are faded or fading, it's still surprising to see just how good the nice ones still are.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 07, 2017, 12:33 PM:

sadly, low fade film stock was certainly the exception and not the rule. I can't be sure, but "City Heat" appears to be a low fade film stock, (as mine looks pristine). My print of "For Your Eyes Only' is still as good as the day it was printed, but my print of "Stand and Deliver' (1988), definitely looks like it was printed on Kodak SP.

Now, if it comes to other countries, it depends. I have a japanese optical sound print of "Hooper" (with subtitles) on Fuji film and it still looks perfect, as does "Futureworld", (it actually looks better, color wise, than the DVD's I've seen), and going even further back, "Snoopy Come Home" (72) and "A Boy Named Charlie Brown", still have vintage color, even though over 40 years old, so some great film labs were printed on high grade film stock back then for Super 8 opticals.

It appears that LPP was used. my print of "Rocky 3" appears to be on LPP film stock, as it has that slightly "bluish" quality that a lot of early LPP film stock seemed to have.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on February 07, 2017, 01:19 PM:

Where was Dave Thomas based, Osi?

That rings a bell...was he the UK dealer that advertised such things as "Raiders" and "Star Trek III" as optical prints back in the day???

Or was that someone else entirely? Age...it's terrible isn't it!

Andrew, screening "Over the Top" & " Spaceballs" to your mates in the 1980's with really sharp print quality was just such great fun.

Made us all realise just how rubbish VHS was.

Sadly, now I just can't see the point with Blu-ray versions out there.

Anyways... I think we've gone off topic again on the for sale section, but it would be nice if Doug could move us to a new thread?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 07, 2017, 02:23 PM:

[Big Grin]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on February 07, 2017, 04:33 PM:

I started to collect a few of these, i had little shop of horrors, crocodile Dundee and The Bounty, all had great colours ,BUT, i hate films being edited for the most mild of lingo and in croc Dundee the scene where a guy is sniffing something he shouldn't be, Mick Dundee thinks he has a cold so pours the drug into a bowl of hot water and says now get your head over and breathe deeply, thatl clear your head, this was completely removed, so i sold the lot, films edited for a general audience dont belong in a home cinema. In my opinion [Big Grin]

I paid for the feature films, not a kids version of it. All three titles were cut this way, even little shop of horrors, A fish called wanda and Lethal weapon were both titles i would have liked but these sort of edits would have killed them, especially a fish called wanda [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 07, 2017, 05:19 PM:

I like them Tom. They are only minor edits and if they left one or two expletives out, I can live with that.

The bigger issue with these now imo is not the editing, just the condition and fading issues of many that turn up.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on February 08, 2017, 03:20 AM:

I remember the BBC showing an airline edit of Ruthless People - at one point Bette Midler should have said "Oh my God, I've been kidnapped by .....2 she said "Oh my Lord...". How did I know what she should have said? 2 hours earlier they showed a trailer where she said the right line!!!!!

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 08, 2017, 11:35 AM:

Dave Thomas Films was located in the U.S. I say "was" as, until only recently, he had an ebay page, but he has not had it up there for quite awhile now. he might have completely retired. I'd still like to get ahold of him though, and just chat about the "good ole days"! [Smile]

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