8mm Forum: Standard 8mm with audio tape player setup

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Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on February 11, 2017, 10:26 PM:

Hi all,
I have in my collection a Eumig P8 phonomatic and a Noris 8 synchro super standard 8mm projector that can be connected to the old type of reel to reel audio player to add sound to your silent films on projection.
Somehow they are synchronized to each other according to the instruction manual.
Does anyone actually have this setup working?
I am curious as to what it's like and how well it works etc.
And maybe post a picture or a video?
Cheers from New Zealand [Smile]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on February 12, 2017, 12:01 AM:

Clinton, around 1958 I had a Eumig P8 with the Phonomat synchrozizer. This was the time period before the widespread adoption of magnetic stripe, and many people were using tape recorders to add sound to their home movies. My recollection of the Eumig P8 Phonomat or Imperial, is that it worked very well, and kept the film in sync with the audio tape with an accuracy of maybe plus or minus a couple of seconds over a 10 minute reel. So it was great for adding music and commentary and sound effects to home movies, which was its intent. But not suitable for lip sync accuracy.
The way it worked was that the tape was fed over some rollers on the phonomat unit, and any change in the speed of the projector was immediately corrected by a roller on a swinging arm connected to a potentiometer wired in series with the motor. Thus the speed of the projector was automatically controlled by the speed of the tape coming off the tape recorder. You would put a mark on the tape to correspond with a starting frame on the film. so that you always had the film and the tape in the correct position when starting up.

Bolex had a device called the Synchromat, that worked on a similar principle. Noris had a projector with a built in cassette tape unit, which was probably the best solution of all.

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on February 12, 2017, 04:42 PM:

Really good info Paul,that's what I like about this hobby,running and using projectors etc the way they did decades ago [Smile]

One day I like to see one in operation 🙂
Cheers,Clinton.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 12, 2017, 06:34 PM:

This tape is especially made to work with a super 8 projector but I have no idea how it works : http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Tadie-Cinema-Cassette-TC8-pour-projecteur-sonore-super-8-TC-8-lembrayage-/222381655440?hash=item33c6fac590:g:NNsAAOSwNRdYAPI8

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on February 13, 2017, 07:53 AM:

Here is the Noris Sonomat with built in cassette tape recording and playback, presumably in sync with the film:

What a great idea, I wonder why it was not more widely adopted.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on February 13, 2017, 09:39 AM:

I assume that the Norimat's tape unit was used for personal recordings and that no silent package movie came with an accompanying cassette.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 13, 2017, 12:09 PM:

I had one of those Paul and i wish that i had never sold it. That Eumig P8 just looks good on a shelf, even if it's for spare part!

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on February 13, 2017, 05:28 PM:

The Eumig P8 was a game changer in it's day Osi. It was my very first 8mm projector after 'graduating' from the 9.5mm Pathe Ace and 'Pat' camera. The P8 was (is) a great looking machine, which in 1958 looked very modern with the top front and back reels and the light olive crackle finish. The gate opens on a precision slide, a design which I like very much. At a time when just about everyone was using house heating 500 watt lamps, Eumig showed that a 12 volt 100 watt compact filament lamp was brighter and a a whole lot cooler. That's why Eumig sold hundreds of thousands of the P8 around the world, and made them the largest manufacturer of cine equipment for the next 30 years.

Here is the Bolex Synchromat, that mechanically coupled to the M8 projector by means of a flexible cable:

I have no experience of the Bolex Synchromat, but I do prefer the arrangement of the equipment, with a shorter run of tape, and no need to twist the tape as with the Eumig Phonomat.

[ February 13, 2017, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Paul Adsett ]

Posted by Simon Wyss (Member # 1569) on February 14, 2017, 05:50 AM:

There’s something every 8mm film enthusiast should know. 25 frames per second correspond to 3¾ inches per second, a standardised tape speed. Using perforated magnetic tape or magnetic film 8 one can do lip synch jobs.

There were sprocket drums for the Synchromat and many other such devices. They do away with any slip. One of my favourite systems is Bauer’s. The projector is the T10, an almost noiselessly running projector. Drawback is that it runs at 16 fps only. The Paillard-Bolex M8 can be made to run in synch at almost any desired pace using the appropriate sprocket drum.

The Eumig P8 is one of the best 8mm projectors. Of course, it’s got disadvantages such as rather thin insulation of the main switch board against the housing. Yes! Also, it attains around 20 fps, not more. But its mechanics are top.

Recently I opened a cheap japanese projector, a Bell-Koon Mitica from the late fifties. I must say that the little sucker allows access to the motor bearings and those of the mechanism. Freshly oiled that machine has run like new.

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