8mm Forum: WOT ! No film on the take up spool????!!!!

This is topic WOT ! No film on the take up spool????!!!! in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on May 31, 2017, 06:14 PM:

Well..... it happened to me for the first time tonight after over 40 years of showing super 8. I was happily watching a rather full 400' reel of film (Part 4 of the collectors club edition of "Carve Her Name With Pride" for the record)and failed to notice that for some inexplicable reason, the take up spool hadn't moved.It had no obstruction, it just hadn't.....moved. 400' of film strewn on the floor between the back of the projector stand and the wall. O.M.G.!This is going to be one nightmare to unravel and clear up.

......or so I thought.

I took the end of the film, attached it to the front spool and started rewinding it myself...s l o w l y ... by hand, waiting for the knots to appear. Well, the celluloid Gods were looking down on me tonight.... not one single knot. The film must have just layered up on itself in such a way that none of it wrapped itself around the bits from 5 minutes earlier. If I had moved either the projector or,worse, the film, I think it would have been "bye bye" Virginia McKenna as the unknotting of it would have been impossible.

I was lucky......VERY lucky !

Has anyone else experienced this at all? What was your outcome?

.

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on May 31, 2017, 06:32 PM:

Yes I've had it happen once. It was a 200' train film, I think Ore Car 227 or something like that...not for general audiences but I was sitting in the viewing chair (and not beside the projector) and the belt had snapped not long after I started it and there was a nice pile of film on the floor behind the projector stand. It spooled back up ok but I was worried that the film was damaged but upon watching it again it was fine. I did clean it before watching again though.

One other time this happened I was screening Way Out West for my dad and I was sitting with him (away from the projector again) but this time I heard something funny and was able to catch it....I was going to stop the projector but I decided to let it roll for my dad and the second half of that 1200' was murder on my arm just slightly rolling it by hand while the movie played. But I saved it from piling up on the floor!

[Smile]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on May 31, 2017, 08:31 PM:

Bill, I think it was "Ore Extra 225", since I got a print a few months ago myself!

There's a story about the great Canadian nature filmmaker Bill Mason. Somebody who had been kind of a mentor early on came over to his house to watch a pre-release print of Bill Mason's feature film Waterwalker.

Bill hung the largest screen he could find in front of his fireplace, but found his throw was too short to fill it, so he backed the machine up through the living room, then through the porch doors, then out onto the porch. He finally filled up the screen with the back legs of the projector on the railing and the take-up reel hanging out into space.

The screening was going great until he went back to change reels and found an entire reel of brand new 16mm film on the ground mixed with the dirt and the pine needles, and the dead leaves and the bugs!

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on May 31, 2017, 08:50 PM:

Oh boy that's bad.

Steve you are correct...Ore Extra 225....well I was close!

[Smile]

Posted by Jason Smith (Member # 5055) on May 31, 2017, 09:22 PM:

I`ve had this happen to me while using the blue Supaspool 1600 ft reel as a take up reel on my GS-1200.

Like someone mentioned, the trick is to not disturb the pile of film that has fallen. Slowly rewind it back up and you should be fine.

Posted by Daniel Macarone (Member # 5102) on May 31, 2017, 10:08 PM:

It happened to me with my Elmo ST-1200HD. The green lever that slides out of the way for a 1200' reel was bent and didn't slide far enough. The reel scraped against it and it moved it to the 800' position, then the reel couldn't move. I caught it after only a few minutes and the film was fine. After that, I had to bend that green lever so it sits out of the way. Those extra rollers for an 800' reel are actually unnecessary.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 31, 2017, 11:47 PM:

They're not actually Daniel.

They are there to facilitate one of the better auto thread mechanisms for 800ft reel capacities on a projector, in getting film onto reel.

One might argue the entire necessity of getting film onto reel unaided by human intervention is not entirely required, but this is what this part of your machine is for and when working correctly, including the auto thread solenoid aspect of this mechanism,..it does work very well.
The downside can also be additional wear and scratch points though.

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 3812) on June 01, 2017, 01:59 AM:

I can recall when I was just a very green new chum at running 35mm projectors doing 20 minute reel changes.
The takeup belt snapped just as the machine went on screen & rather than STOP & fix the projectionist just calmly opened the spool box & let it all pile out onto the floor. He did NOT wish to stop & fix as we had a very full house that night so opted to keep the show on the screen.
At the next change he carefully picked up the end of the film & with me guiding it walked back to the rewind bench some 5M to the left, calmly fitted the feed spool onto the rewind & I had to hold the film by the edges up high enough to clear the carbon arc lamphouse & he wound the lot back onto the feed spool.
Fitted a new TU belt whilst I threaded up & checked the carbons & we were ready for the next change back.
[Wink]

His moral was NOT to try & move the pile of film as if left untouched it will go back out of the pile if you pick the end up and carefully wind back. No knots or kinks or anything like that.
This was 2000 feet of 35mm in a HUGE pile between the 2 machines !!

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on June 01, 2017, 02:44 AM:

Not a full reel, but I have occasionally had the projector too close to a wall and the take up reel has touched it and stopped when adjusting the picture height.

As others have said as long as the last off the reel is on top it goes back on easily and without snags.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 01, 2017, 05:36 AM:

I had a 35mm problem back around 1995 when we were showing "Pulp Fiction" which at 2hrs 34mins is around 13,860ft. It was a 5-screen multiplex which had Christie 3-tier Platters. The long projection room housed all five projectors and was over 100ft in length.

"Pulp Fiction" just fitted on to the top platter, only an inch or so from its edge.

With about 20 minutes left to go the overhead ventilation system blew the remainder of the film down to the ground into a tangled heap. The auto system immediately shut down.

Like most cinemas of its day we were single-manning. I was faced with a horrible sight. A call to front-of-house brought up one of their male staff and we set about sorting out the mess. (I also had four other screens to run.)

The film, like other incidents mentioned above couldn't just be pulled back. We cut the film where it was hanging over the edge and began to lay about 2000ft of film backwards and forwards along the floor, twisting it as necessary as we went.

We eventually got it onto a 6000ft spool, and using the mobile packing on/off unit we joined it to the remainder left on the platter running it through a cleaning cloth as it went.

The audience was issued with a complimentary ticket, but we lost the succeeding show.

To members who do not know the Christie Platter System you may click on the item below. In the picture is the three-platter unit. The film is feeding from the middle plate to the top plate.

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2371636/b/b4/b4ff79bf_thewyaitwas2.jpeg

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on June 01, 2017, 05:40 AM:

similar experience to Lindsay. years ago ,I helped out at a local flea pit in the box using a pair of "super simplex" projectors,that even then were 30 years old.
on starting up for change overs,these would often "snatch",so you had to help the take up reel start by just the right amount,otherwise the film broke.
I always remember the regular projectionist dealing with such a break without stopping the projector,and getting the broken end back on the take up reel.
poetry in motion to watch!

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on June 01, 2017, 05:54 AM:

Maurice - ...and I thought I had a problem!

Jason - GS1200 being the operative word!!!!

I must say, I did learn a lesson last night and thank you to everyone so far who has contributed to my topic with your shared experiences. I am so pleased I put my brain into gear before allowing panic to set in, and DIDN'T touch the pile of film.

.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on June 01, 2017, 06:18 AM:

Melvin/Maurice I have had an entire 35mm feature on the box floor
to clear up. All 7 reels of it. It was a Bollywood film
that just would not wind flat and tight onto the platters.

We were moving it to another screen when the centre film ring
popped right out. We even had film clamps on it across the print
and we were using a film transporter on wheels during its transit.

When we were sliding it on to the platter the ring came out and
I was left with the outside final 3 reels and all the rest just
crumpled and caved in on itself falling off the platter onto the floor. What a bloody mess.

Not only did it twist and crumple but looped in and over itself
mixing with other reel parts.

It took us 2 shifts to get it off the box floor and get it back together.

All 14,000 feet of it !

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 01, 2017, 06:26 AM:

David
I hated it when the Manager decided to move films between screens.
Would it stay together, or would the centre fall out. It never did, but there was always the thought that it might.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 01, 2017, 11:47 AM:

ahhhh .. haha! It's happened to all of us, probably. My frustration is when, sometimes, if the leader isn't trimmed JUST RIGHT, the film will "loop out" from the front as, it won't either go past the sound heads or something right around that region of the film path .... GRRRRR!

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on June 01, 2017, 05:46 PM:

Of course the main thing to remember with a Silent Movie is not to wind it round Marty Feldman. :-)

Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on June 01, 2017, 07:52 PM:

This happened to me the other night when giving an Eumig S712D a run out. I like this projector as you have to thread the film manually once it's gone through the gates and form the loop yourself according to the gauge. I attached the leader to the take up spool and all seemed well until the spool stopped turning after a short while. I stopped the projector and reeled in the loose film. It worked perfectly when I tried again. I've read that Eumigs like to be used and seem to sulk if neglected. A myth no doubt but that might explain it!

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on June 01, 2017, 09:07 PM:

This too has happened to me,I thought the film was in the slot on the take-up reel but it must've slipped out and I didn't realize until into the movie.It was a tightly would film so it curled a lot!
What a job winding it back on by hand,but did it because it's what we do :-)

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on June 02, 2017, 08:03 AM:

Maurice i know of one projectionist who was showing a print of
SCHINDLERS LIST at a triple site.

The manager asked him to move it downstairs from Screen 1 down to
Screen 2 for one tea time showing only then to move it back up
to Screen 1 for the final evening performance.

The projectionist advised and protested against any such move
due to the slackness of the film stock.

After one almighty argument the manager got his way in the end.

However the print gave way and landed on the public stair entrance
during its transit to Screen 2
.
So there it was a print lying all over not only the stairs but on a carpet as well.

It was in a right old mess with carpet fibres and dust.

It took them ages to get it off the stairs and customers had
to use an alternative route to Screen 1.

The projectionist was very angry about this and the know it all
manager had his ego deflated.

Not only that he had to explain to head office why he lost some shows.

The moral of this tale is that ... THE PROJECTIONIST KNOWS BEST !

[Smile]

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on June 02, 2017, 12:17 PM:

I'm sure he never asked you again,David. (!!!!!!!!!!!)

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on June 02, 2017, 12:22 PM:

Melvin

Hahahahahahahaha !!!! No it was not me. I would have just told
him to F~@* off ! [Big Grin]

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on June 02, 2017, 12:30 PM:

That's the spirit,David ! Ha Ha!!

I just thought using the third person "The projectionist" was a subtle way of covering your tracks!!!

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on June 02, 2017, 04:43 PM:

Melvin

I knew you were thinking that.

However I have told Managers where to go using those words in
the past when they started pushing there luck.

The Projection Box was a no go area for the managers and the sole domain of the projectionists.
[Big Grin]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 02, 2017, 05:23 PM:

Many many years ago this happened to me, however, only the once in nearly 40 years of projecting. It was on a Eumig 810DLUX.
Ever since that time i now have a habit of glancing back during a show at the two reels going around to make sure all is good. it is literally a fleeting glance but its a habit worth getting in to. I always sit next to the machine, (just forward to be just past the front of it, on the lower shelf and forward, (right next to me on the left), is the amp, i am often adjusting the sound slightly in order for certain points in the film to have a bit more impact.
On the rear of our ST1200HD's we now always leave the rear green guide inward . This is one less part used and one less part that will scratch, not that ours have had that problem, When the leader pops out the back i let enough come out to flick it up and over the core of the 800 take up spool. My ""manual auto thread" works perfectly every time as long as the leaders are trimmed and curved correctly. [Wink]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 03, 2017, 11:26 AM:

Just LUV the Feldman reference! [Smile]

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on June 03, 2017, 06:15 PM:

As far as my past role as a cinema projectionist we were always moving film from one platter to another. However never had a problem as I always got a hand either from the manager or one of the kids working downstairs. I never moved them on my own...to risky.

Reading the above comments I am not sure how things work in other countries, but here we have individual work contracts and they can be quite extensive. Those contracts often contain that any abuse either verbal or physical to another employee or customer are grounds for instant dismissal.

The above projectionist should have said to the manager that if he really wanted the projectionist to move it, then "he" the manager will need to give a hand moving it... otherwise it aint happening.

I once had to move "Gladiator" early one morning there was only myself and the cashier on. I went downstairs asked for a lift, she had a sore back so she asked a couple of schoolkids playing on the machines.."should have been at school"... if they could help. Between the three of us we moved it, I thanked them for the help and after talking to the cashier afterwards, we gave them free tickets to that morning session of Gladiator [Smile]

Anyway many years later I was leaving through the exit one night, when I came across two youths hanging out on the stairs. One said do you remember me.. I replied no...we helped you move Gladiator...did you enjoy the movie? yes...after all those years they remembered.

Back on topic [Roll Eyes]

I have forgotton to flick the little latch on Elmo projectors either on the feed side or take up, where the result was a quiet clunk, as the reel would fall off and go on its merry old way spilling film all over the place. [Frown]

I have done that a few times [Roll Eyes]

...must be an age thing [Smile]

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