8mm Forum: Are there more people in our hobby than meets the eye ?

This is topic Are there more people in our hobby than meets the eye ? in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on September 08, 2017, 04:52 AM:

This is a question I am beginning to think could be true.... and I hope I am right.
I do a moderate amount of film selling on Ebay, and in most cases the names of the winners are completely unknown to me. I am not suggesting that the members of this forum are the only people left on the planet involved in this wonderful hobby. Indeed, I know at least two people who collect super 8, 16mm and 35mm who are not here.
If you sell films on Ebay, do you notice that most of your winners are "unknown" to you, or are they fellow forum members?

I would be interested in your comments.

.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 08, 2017, 05:10 AM:

Just in general:

Film collecting is an Old School kind of thing, and there are a number of the older Old School kind of people who still aren't on the internet.

A very widely esteemed film guy who I won't name because I don't want to seem like I'm criticizing got an E-mail address a couple of years ago. I sent him a question and just as before he called me back on the phone (-actual voice! No texting!). From our talk it was obvious he hadn't read my note. I asked him about it and he said "That's my wife's thing: I never read it, she just tells me the names."

So anybody like this has no visibility of us, and vice versa.

As far as the people who actually are on the Internet:

What about all the people that are here that we never see? We have over 5000 members and the number grows almost daily. How many are really active? Maybe a hundred. I bet a lot of the people you encounter actually are members here, but there's no way you'd ever know it. Some of them may have joined so long ago that even they forgot they are members.

PS: I have no problems with people lurking. I did that myself for about 6 months back in 2003.

What's funny is I was at my son's Scout meeting a couple of years ago and one of the other Dads walked up to me and asked me a projector question: he found me here. Here was a lurker come to the surface in real life!

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on September 08, 2017, 06:26 AM:

Lack of knowledge of English is another reason why some people don't contribute to the forum. Many French and Spanish ninefivers for example are not comfortable nor with the Net nor with Shakespeare's language.

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on September 08, 2017, 07:25 AM:

Here in New Zealand we film people use a NZ auction sight and wether I'm selling or buying films or equipment I often deal with the same people,and of course strangers.
Buying from overseas on eBay then usually strangers.
As for other languages then online translators are brilliant.I bought 9.5mm films from France and messaged in English and French,I have even bought Super 8mm films from Germany and used online translators for that too.
Anything is possible now [Smile]

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on September 08, 2017, 09:24 AM:

Interesting - With that many members world-wide, film shows would be abounding with people - I urge those of a mind, to attend shows in Columbus and Wildwood, Buffalo and everywhere as you will learn more and become steadfast friends with many who share in the experience - As to EBAY, at first several sellers I never knew, then potential repeat buys brought me into their realm, so to speak - Friendship and trust established and it evolved from there - I still remain in touch with past sellers who have given me leads elsehwere or come across items I'm after - Cheers all, Shorty

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on September 08, 2017, 10:40 AM:

Thank you to everybody so far, who has responded to my topic. Keep your thoughts coming.

Steve - A very interesting read. Although I did not mention it in my main thread, I had tried to estimate how many of the 5000 or so members of this forum are active and I,too,reached a figure of approx.100 It would be an interesting exercise if Brad or Doug were to send the inactive members an email asking them if they still wish to remain on the forum or not (not that I am suggesting they should.I am sure they have enough on their plates)and,if yes, to please contribute more. I wonder what the response would be?

Clinton - You have got the right idea. With the marvels of modern day technology, we can now converse with almost the entire population of the planet. I bet your translator has helped you obtain prints you never thought you would ever buy?

Joe - No doubt you would be dealing more on the USA branch of Ebay and not Ebay UK. In which case, due to the differences in population, there will be far more "strangers" selling films than over here...... and you manage to turn a lot of them from strangers into friends, or friendly contacts, which is admirable!

Dominique - Quel dommage! J'ai pense que la plupart de personnes Francais et Belgique parlent anglais,aussi? Evidemment ce n'est pas vrai.

.

Posted by Greg Perry (Member # 5177) on September 08, 2017, 10:55 AM:

Hi Melvin,

Of the small number of ebay film sales I have completed, I would guess 80% of the buyers were names I was not familiar with. So they were either infrequent and unrecognized (by me) posters/lurkers, or not forum members. I did not look them up to confirm membership. I will point out that most of my ebay sales were 16mm--but the percentage also holds true when evaluated against Larry's 16mm forum as well.

But I would agree with your theory, their are in fact more of us out there who are not currently participating in the forum.

Our hobby, at least to me, seems like a more or less solitary one. I don't go out of my way to talk about projectors and film collecting to others because most can't quite grasp the "why" of it all. And while the forum provides access to many folks that do get it I would guess a good number of collectors may not even be aware of the forum's existence.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 08, 2017, 10:55 AM:

It's interesting: you don't need to join to just read. (My friend from Scouts didn't join.) So I can't see joining and never posting.

-but I don't think there's any real harm in it either.

If I were a member here 20 years ago, I wouldn't have been very active. I had a small silent collection and one projector. There really wasn't that much to say, but times changed.

I have this idea that I'm the only film collector for like 20 miles in any direction, but that can't be true. If there was another one a block away and they didn't make contact here, there's no way either of us would be any wiser.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on September 08, 2017, 11:01 AM:

No, Melvin, sadly. Most of the French-speaking people don't speak English.
Several cine enthusiasts (they will recognize thewselves) I met in Britain at conventions knew me from the forum but said they never sent any message. So if someone is registred but never contribute, that doesn't mean he's not interested. Of course, that's probably not the majority of the "inactive" members but it's to say that it's hard to tell just by what we see (if that sentence is understandable :-)

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on September 08, 2017, 11:11 AM:

I know from speaking to Leon Norris that there are many collectors who don't post but they are out there and from what he told me ..serious collectors. He told me of one customer who has numerous GS1200's and a few Xenons!
And they have Fumeo's, Beaulieu's.
And of course very nice film collections.
When I was a kid I always thought only people in the USA had Super 8 films! [Smile]

Then in the late 90's I found Derann and then I thought all the collectors were in Europe.
Would you say that there are more collectors in Europe than here in the USA? I don't think we could ever have a Blackpool or a Derann films here. Not enough interest.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on September 08, 2017, 12:20 PM:

My impression is that Super 8 has always been more popular in Europe and 16mm more popular in the US. I may be wrong.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on September 08, 2017, 12:48 PM:

I believe that you're right Micheal, being that the U.K. and elsewhere in the world, have kept super 8 alive thru either companies still putting out super 8 product or people just professionally selling super 8 to this day.

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on September 08, 2017, 01:11 PM:

Alan - For BLACKPOOL read WILDWOOD
For DERANN read THE REEL IMAGE

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on September 08, 2017, 01:28 PM:

I know of 3 collectors that live in my city area and we don't communicate hardly at all so I agree that it is a solitary hobby. Most of my screenings are an audience of one....me. I drive 3 hours away to enjoy hanging with like minded collectors when there are ones close by I rarely see. And to the topic I believe there are a lot of collectors not on any forum....especially the older ones.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 08, 2017, 01:35 PM:

Ah, but Melvin!

The Reel Image and CineSea are both beautiful, but they are compact in size.

CineSea fits in a single room maybe 30 by 60 feet. When somebody skips one it usually doesn't go unnoticed by the ones that show up.

Typical at the dinner Saturday night: 30 people, and that's almost all of us.

When we look at the videos from the UK conventions we see a lot of the same kinds of goings on we have, just much more.

There was a time before it got going I thought it would never happen, so to me it's almost a minor miracle.

The US moved on from small gauge film pretty quickly. Our "Derann" was Blackhawk, and that building went empty well before 1990.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on September 08, 2017, 01:57 PM:

Dominique is quite right when it comes to non-english speaking folk and this is where "Facebook" with its auto translate is really good. The people I have come across from Europe are serious Super 8 film makers and some of the stuff they put up with there "videos" and stills are amazing and that's something you would never see here.

So if you want to get an idea "are there there more people in the hobby than meets the eye"? you will have to look further than this forum. [Smile]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on September 08, 2017, 03:14 PM:

If language is the problem, count how many Australian members here....very few, while they speak English.

I used to live in Australia, and know that fans of 8mm, both film collecting and shooting, was quite big.

They have their own meetings/trading events/conventions. Kodak used to have a Kodachrome lab here.

It is even bigger for 16mm collecting scene.

There are several publications on both gauges.

Japan is another story,....but yes they don't speak English. However Japan is the land for Elmos (projector), Canons (camera), Gokos (editor), Fuji Lamps (bulbs), Fujifilms (film stock)....etc for many lower level for each category. Shooting with Super 8mm os still an extracurriculum at many schools [Smile]

So...yes there are more film collectors than what we think.

Cheers,

Posted by Dave Ruth (Member # 4596) on September 08, 2017, 03:31 PM:

I started selling some of my films at the beginning of the year, and I have only sold to the same person twice. It does really surprise me to see the names of the buyers and not recognize any of them from this forum or the 16mm forum.

Posted by Michael Lattavo (Member # 4280) on September 08, 2017, 03:37 PM:

I agree with Bill (I work in his hometown, by the way). We have been short-handed at work, so I've been giving driving tests almost every day - which means I pass your exit anywhere from 6-7 times a day! I can't tell you how many times I think "I wonder how Bill Phelps and his Dad are doing? I should give him a call one of these days - still haven't had him over to see my set-up in the basement, and still want to check his out as well."

But it never happens - by the time I'm done with work, my routine is get home, get cleaned up, play with the kids for a few minutes, eat dinner, help get them to bed, take a shower and go to bed myself to do it all over again the next day. I think that's one great thing about the shows - it gets put in the calendar. No work, no obligations, no excuses - its time to drive to Dayton (for my very first outdoor show there!), or Columbus, or Buffalo, or Wildwood (I'll be in Room 215 this year, by the way!). I've got boxes of film in the basement, a 35mm projector sitting in the garage I'm trying to get going (in my mind, at least), etc. etc. I always think "someday, someday there will be more time".....

As far as posting vs lurking, I'll admit I look each forum up every day - but a lot of times, just don't have anything to say...and I know of at least two that I signed up for very early on that I never check anymore.

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on September 08, 2017, 05:10 PM:

We'll see you in Dayton Michael! That's what I mean...we live very close but drive for 3 hours to hang out....go figure! Maybe we could work something out to get together at some point. I have some 35mm trailers that would be nice to see....I've never seen them myself.

[ September 08, 2017, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Bill Phelps ]

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on September 09, 2017, 03:01 AM:

My opinion is that interest is growing in film and equipment. People are looking to invest in anything old these days whether it be sewing machines, old hand cranked gramophones, slot machines, tape recorders etc. Just look at the resurgence in vinyl and record players! How much more fascinating is the world of Cine and all its history. You don't see anything cine related at car boots/flea markets or Charity shops any more. Anyone looking for items has to invariably turn to eBay to find it. I suspect that a good proportion has been dumped and it is becoming scarce, especially items in good condition. Don't forget some of it is 100years old or more.
So chin up - no,no both of them! (L&H Chumps ar Oxford) [Smile]

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on September 09, 2017, 04:02 AM:

I agree with Terry to an extent. There is a growing interest in old technology, vinyl records, talk of a resurgence in interest in audio cassettes, etc
However, curiosity doesn't always translate into the perseverance required in film collecting, the difficulty with locating good prints, knowing where and from whom to buy, caring for acquired prints, maintaining equipment, and so on.
I wonder how soon, and for how many, the novelty soon wears off.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 09, 2017, 04:22 AM:

I refer to the original question, I think the answer is yes.

Some good comments have been made here. For instance, about acquiring anything decent, whether be films or equipment.

eBay is a virtual mine field with rubbish being offered at outrageous prices by people who are obviously after a quick buck, knowing nothing about what they are selling and often quoting Retro very prominently!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on September 09, 2017, 05:06 AM:

I am still wondering how many Australian are member here.

Perhaps, Doug using his moderator status can see the actual number?

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on September 09, 2017, 10:30 AM:

As one of the founders at Wildwood, I urge all our friends both here and abroad to attend next month - You will love coming and never want to leave - It will have that wonderful effect on you all - Whomever does come will bring with them knowledge, stories, films and we can further our mutual interests in both the technological and performance of motion pictures - Language barriers, I think not, once that first projector whirrs along we all speak the same - Cheers all, Shorty

Posted by Dave Ruth (Member # 4596) on September 09, 2017, 11:42 AM:

Tell 'em Shorty! I'm trying to convince my wife to let us do a 'family shore trip' that weekend so I can pop my head in at CineSea! Having a 2 month old seems to complicate things (like having 40+ reels I haven't gotten a chance to screen yet!)

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on September 09, 2017, 03:41 PM:

Dave, I hope you can make it!

Winbert, I would have to look at each member's profile to see where they live. There's no way to search by location.

Melvin, I constantly run into collectors who do not participate on forums. The majority of sellers on eBay who are also collectors are among them.

Doug

Posted by Nantawat Kittiwarakul (Member # 6050) on September 10, 2017, 09:41 PM:

A small voice from far,far away land.
Before the dawn of internet,I always though that I'm the only one in my country (Thailand) having this pretty crazy hobby. Then it's realized that there's at least dozens of crazy collectors like me in this relatively small land. [Big Grin]

And yes,the language barrier is a HUGE obstruction for non-English speaking population - let alone lots of senior collectors who even had no idea about internet/social media at all. [Confused]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on September 10, 2017, 11:25 PM:

Although most of us members here would consider it unthinkable to not engage with a forum as good as this one, forums are clearly not for everyone. I know collectors who are perfectly 'normal', sociable people, but who have never joined one! I can think of one or two others who could potentially be great contributors, but they forever lurk, despite occasionally talking about forum content if you see them in person! I find that hard to understand, but I think there can be a variety of reasons, such as:

People with considerable work/family commitments, with little time to watch films, let alone read about film collecting.
Some people are wary of forums in general, having heard of abrasive people, arguments, etc. Or they may feel it would become addictive, if they started posting.
Some people hardly ever buy films other than at conventions, and never sell films, so the buying/selling boards are of no interest.
Some simply prefer to do other things.

So, it all adds up to a lot of people that you never see posting here.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 11, 2017, 09:42 AM:

I know a really decent guy (a lot of us know him) who participates here in his own way: every so often he wants to respond to something I've written here and I get an e-mail, a few years ago it was actually paper mail.

I suppose back 50 years ago it would have been possible to do all this by post. It just would have required a full time secretary to compile the discussions and mail them out. (FAX, anyone?)

-a flame war could last for years! It might weigh a couple of pounds too!

"What am I angry about again?"

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 11, 2017, 09:54 AM:

Following on from Adrian's comment.
I know of some people who read this Forum but have never considered being a contributing member.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on September 11, 2017, 10:51 AM:

On reading all this, those very cloistered folks will have their interest churned about,a nd make the discovery of intercommunicating here at maybe at CINESEA - One important area of consideration when we meet at the shore, we share films and good meals, but of the utmost, we make each other laugh - No social barrier will ever hold up to that - Come join us one and all - Cheers, Shorty

Posted by Todd N. Tuckey (Member # 5054) on September 11, 2017, 12:06 PM:

PLUS...Tammy and I are coming in THURSDAY night...a day earlier!!

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on September 11, 2017, 12:24 PM:

I'm there now, talk about dedicated - LOL

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 11, 2017, 12:54 PM:

Was that you up on the Boardwalk this morning?

I KNEW it!

(I actually never went home the last time!)

Posted by David Coppola (Member # 4209) on September 11, 2017, 06:04 PM:

In the 90s I was HEAVY into 16mm collecting. At the end of the 90s I got out of it, but I still enjoy this site and viewing titles and equipment on Ebay.

Posted by John Last (Member # 3414) on October 03, 2017, 09:29 AM:

what a wonderful topic! Now we all need a publication so as we all can benefit from each other's knowledge. IMM has bitten the dust in UK so can someone start another one? Sorry I can't as age is creeping too fast!

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on October 03, 2017, 10:15 AM:

John - There are, in fact, at least TWO publications printed in the UK which may be of interest.

"Projections" which is "Film and disc at home on the BIG screen."
This does cover film and Dvd/Blu Ray but there is quite a lot of 8mm / 16mm articles in there and lots of projector talk! You can contact Pete at email Projections@hotmail.co.uk

The second is "Film Collector" published by Classic Home Cinema (CHC) of Grimsby/Cleethorpes UK, which is dedicated to "all film formats,the cinema, art etc etc" Phil's contact Email address is
chcinema@aol.com

Thought this may be of help.

Does anyone know any more publications?

.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on October 03, 2017, 10:58 AM:

Yes - I think Flickers is still going and of course 9.5 magazine which I subscribe to.

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