8mm Forum: ELMO should SUE!

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Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 29, 2017, 09:21 PM:

So, it was Friday (-still is!), I figured I'd celebrate by watching some films...

First up was my prized Derann "Nutcracker Suite" on my Bolex SP-80 Special (Eumig 800 series working under cover). The volume kept rising and falling: every time it reached a certain level it became normal, under that level it was muffled.

First I tried denial:

"I'm going DEAF! Yes, that must be it!" (I can always get hearing aids, but an amplifier board for a 40 year old projector...?)

You see, this is not the best machine I have, but it just happens to be the first. In my world of Super-8 Sound, this is the Wright Flyer! It got me started back in 2002 and I don't want to lose it! What's worse is this one has been spectacularly reliable. I'm not too familiar with its innards and I have no idea where to get parts for it.

So I went to my bag of tricks:

1) Divide and Conquer

I disconnected the machine from the sound system and turned up the internal speaker. The dropout stayed with the machine. (Oh Crap!)

2) Go with what you know:

It's like being betrayed by your best friend: you just don't know what to believe in anymore, so you run home to what you know.

"Something must be oxidized"

So I wiggled the plug on the soundhead. (No!)

All that was left was The ELMO Trick

-but could The ELMO Trick work on a Eumig? (Doesn't Elmo have some sort of patent on it?)

(I suppose if you drove a stake through Frankenstein's Monster's heart, it actually would kill him, but that is just so Dracula!)

Desperate times call for desperate measures, so I gave it a try.

The ELMO Trick involves the fact that unless you use gold plating on a switch contact it will eventually build up an oxide and not pass a wimpy signal like unamplified audio. When you work these switches and jacks you can break the oxides and restore everything to normal. I've used in on my Elmos many times. I startled a fellow collector by using it on theirs once. (It was like magic!) I used it at work on a $15,000 power supply and impressed my boss! (You have to love this hobby sometimes!)

-so I tried it out, just to see...

The record level knob, which has been my faithful friend these fifteen years, gave up and let the sound return to normal after a couple of clicks. (Tchaikovsky is doing just fine!)

So I guess The ELMO Trick no longer belongs exclusively to the STs and GSs. The good news is Vienna still has a pretty firm hold on Eumig Hum! If I hear that from an ELMO I'll have heard it all!

(I hate fixing things, but love having fixed them!)

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on September 29, 2017, 10:52 PM:

...so, i've understood everything here steve except the part about why Elmo should sue?
by the way, i love the elmo trick! you taught this to me when i first joined this forum and i have had to use it a couple times, but only on my elmos, but good to know we could try it on other problematic equipment as well.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 30, 2017, 04:25 AM:

Well, I suppose it would be a frivolous lawsuit, but based on the (false) idea that this only applies to ELMO projectors they should have some rights to it! (This was attempted Comedy...I'll be here 'til Thursday! Don't forget to tip your waitresses!)

Where I work we have a lot of high power switch gear, and we decided to bench test it with low voltage (safer, cheaper, more portable). We found that it only really worked right on brand new stuff and only a couple of times. If you grabbed something off the shelf after a year or so idle it was likely to fail the test even if it really was OK. (-Same thing)

What surprised me in this case was I've had this machine 15 years and this is the first time I've ever had this problem with it. This one sat on the bench for like four years because when I first built up my external sound system it refused to play nice. You would think if I had this happen at all, when I first revived it would be the moment of truth.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on September 30, 2017, 05:55 AM:

I am not sure about "Elmo should Sue" but I could well imagine there would be quite a few people who feel the opposite scenario would be highly appropriate.

I know I'd feel I would have been more than eligible for a claim over the years,if one were possible.
Let's put it that way.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 30, 2017, 09:19 AM:

Well, now there's a nice bucket of cold water on what was meant as a light-hearted thread!

Look! Now I have a heckler!

(What would Don Rickles do in a spot like this?)

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on September 30, 2017, 09:22 AM:

Probably buy something else like Frank Sinatra did.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on September 30, 2017, 09:51 AM:

Does this mean that those gold audio connectors that I always thought were a rip off actually improved the signal?

Doug

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 30, 2017, 09:53 AM:

Thank you Doug for the on-topic! (I was headed for the boats on this one!)

I don't think in cases like RCA cables where there is a lot of contact force they matter as much , but switch contacts with line level audio they'd always be a better choice. If I was to replace one of these switches and gold was an option, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The manufacturers of the silver plated switches will tell you they were never meant for a low level signal like this.

Stuff like 1/4" plugs and jacks there is a lot of scraping of metal plugging and extracting, so I wouldn't do gold on these (probably wear it off anyway). I have had contact trouble with 1/8" connections, though.

Gold plated plugs would of course be happiest in gold plated jacks if you did go that route.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on September 30, 2017, 10:01 AM:

I think the quality connectors and conductors etc, always did improve any conductivity level and purity of signal, but to what extent the super duper 99.9999999% pure conductor and oxygen free copper cables etc actually improve the image and sound quality on any quality interconnect, is highly debatable.

For the purist in the specialist hi fi and digital cinema world, they will tell you nothing else will do, in reality I've found a decent HDMI cable of 10m or 15m length costing no more than say £100, is more than sufficient for all but the most demanding applications.

Naturally, if you buy very cheap interconnects, just as with anything else in life, you get nothing more than you pay for and therefore expect to witness a compromise.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 30, 2017, 10:34 AM:

quote:
The record level knob

Steve.
Which knob are you referring to:-
1) Volume control
2) Mixing control

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 30, 2017, 11:06 AM:

It's the "record" knob. It sets the signal level laid down on a recorded track. It has an on/off switch and that's the suspect in this case.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on September 30, 2017, 11:12 AM:

I loved that read, Steve! Very good.

I was going to ask if the print had gotten near something magnetic, (as that can mess with a magnetic sound recording), but you probably took that into account already. [Smile]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 30, 2017, 11:22 AM:

Thank you, Steve.
My Bolex SP8E seems to be quite different from your Bolex SP-80 Special.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 30, 2017, 11:36 AM:

I think this translates most closely to a Super-8 only Eumig 810 HQS. (That's why it's got the "Special").

As a first machine, it's served me very well!

Osi, I stopped the machine, worked the switches and then restarted, that's when I noticed the difference, so the print is probably OK. (It is a good theory though.)

-for sure I'd re-record this one if that was the case!

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 30, 2017, 12:02 PM:

It appears the Elmo trick also works on Sankyo sound projectors. I just restored a Sankyo 600 that had multiple issues. One was "no sound". I tested multiple components and cleaned the heads to no avail. As a last resort I decided to try your tip Steve and exercise the record switch. To my amazement...the sound returned clear ...steady...and loud. [Smile]

I next fixed the film feed by adjusting the linkage and repaired a crack in the bottom rear stand. The projector is now back in action.

Thanks Steve for a great tip!

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on October 01, 2017, 02:50 AM:

Just to be clear on what the Elmo Trick is,...
I just move the switches many times and turn the volume knob many times, and the creckle goes away?
No chemicals needed?

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on October 01, 2017, 03:18 AM:

With digital they either work or dont work. Gold plugs and sockets in the standard home digital world of hi fi and digital projectors are a waste of money.
Analouge certainly requires the best possibble connections and materials.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on October 01, 2017, 03:34 AM:

Volume controls and similar controls usually have a carbon track upon which a contact slides/rotates. Having been left in one position for a long time can result in a "scratchy" sound.
By operating backwards and forwards a few times this "lubricates" by spreading a small amount of the carbon.
With other switches contacts can become oxidised, here again, operating the switch a few times can clean off the oxidisation.
No chemicals needed, Matthieu.

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on October 01, 2017, 08:29 AM:

"Well, I suppose it would be a frivolous lawsuit, but based on the (false) idea that this only applies to ELMO projectors they should have some rights to it! (This was attempted Comedy...I'll be here 'til Thursday! Don't forget to tip your waitresses!)"

[Smile]

I am a little slow on the draw i suppose [Smile]

I get what you meant now.
Yes, it appears this will work on any machine with issues similar.
This isn't really an elmo trick however...this is a Steve trick because you tried this, accidentally, on an elmo, being a big elmo fan, and thus thought perhaps it only applied to elmos, but alas!
btw- i've been wanting to introduce to you folks another product...and it goes along with this thread nicely so i will add it now:
Ox-gard Anti-oxidant compound.

This is not necessarily for what steve is fixing, but if the Elmo(Steve) Trick does not work, this may be a stage #2'er.
I bought this for my newest projector(Bolex 18-5) when i was having some issues connecting the new qlv-1 to the original wires which looked like the contacts needed cleaning.

This worked wonders and made my projector contacts work instantly. Dirt cheap. I got it either at canadian tire or lowes or home depot, can't recall, they all have it i am sure so hunt it down folks!.
http://www.gardnerbender.com/en/ox-100b

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 01, 2017, 09:56 AM:

-not a "Steve trick" in the least! If I discovered it all I'm about the hundred-millionth to do so!

(Thanks anyway!)

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on October 02, 2017, 01:14 AM:

I did this on my fathers Elmo ST1200 in 1984 when I burrought his projector for my little cinema at home.
I was 14 and completely hooked on 8mm film. I automatically saw this as a solution when the volumeknob gave that soundeffect, but as I recall, for me it worked only so so.
I shall try this longer than on the same Elmo ST1200, to see if it disappears.

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