8mm Forum: Best S8 sound editor with bright screen.

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Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on April 13, 2018, 03:55 AM:

I'm looking for a bright and good working editor.
Now brightness will be better with van Ecks 6V Halogeen version they probably make themself.

I had a nice editor Goko A-201, with a bright picture, (van Ecks lamp), but the winders are crap, stuck.
My Elmo 912 Dual Type I think doesn't give me that picture.

Now I'm looking for a new and better editor and for splicing films to come, a sound editor, with at least the same or better picture quallity of the Goko A-201.

I found out Goko has a MR8008 Stereo Edotor.
Is this the Rolls Royce of Super8 Editors, or are their much better ones?

Posted by Stuart Reid (Member # 1460) on April 13, 2018, 01:27 PM:

The Goko Rm8008 is streets ahead of other editors. They crop up on eBay from time to time, expect to pay £60-£150.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on April 13, 2018, 03:54 PM:

There is also the Erno RE-904 NF Sound editor with same size screen and Stereo as well.
Goko seems the US version and Erno the European version. Is this correct?
Are they the same in quallity?
Years must have shown by now.

Posted by Heinrich Kronschlaeger (Member # 145) on April 14, 2018, 02:07 AM:

Hello Matthieu,
Goko 8008 and Erno 904: They are completely the same. When buying one you must note that the picture does not jump up and down.
See here an example:
http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=75621
I own several of the Goko 8008/ Erno 904 and two of these editors have that effect. It cannot be repaired.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 14, 2018, 04:09 AM:

GOKO is good but the prism system makes the picture a bit dim. The prism system is meant to create interlacing between the frames so picture moves smoothly.

If you are not looking for a motorized editor...go for Minette...it has a very bright screen and light.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on April 14, 2018, 10:45 AM:

So the picture of these two Erno or Goko Stereo editors, are not as bright as that of the Goko A-201 because of the NF?

The Elmo 912 hàs some sort of shutter and a darker picture than the Goko A-201.
The NF seemed a great addition, but if that makes the picture darker as well I have to search for something better.
Goko RM4000 and RM5000 are without the NF function, but some websites say they do.

Another thing is that I sometimes need 360m reels as well, but there are none.
Some websites claim that the Goko MM1 takes 360m reels, but no sound.

[ April 14, 2018, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: Matthieu van der Sluis ]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 14, 2018, 10:20 PM:

Yes the NF (Non Flicker) with the prism system make picture darker. You can only see the picture better from straight 90 degree from the screen. If you move your head a bit, the picture is not clear.

I knew some other brand with 1200 capacity like Prinz Oxford 1200. It does not go high for the prize, but I am not sure about the brightness as I never had one.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/prinz-oxford-1200-super-standard-8mm-307465716

Cheers,

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on April 15, 2018, 01:22 AM:

Thans for all the information.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on November 11, 2018, 01:13 AM:

I can buy a Goko RM8008 for €50 but the picture has that jump effect.
Picture is brighter than that of my MM1.
My MM-1 however has also an electrical rewind, while the RM8008 can do this only forward and not back, not sure if this is normal?
Is it still worth of buying or will this give problems that I don't think of right now?
PS. Seeeing this machine for the first time,... it's HUGE hahaha

[ November 11, 2018, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: Matthieu van der Sluis ]

Posted by Kev Morrison (Member # 6338) on November 11, 2018, 09:23 AM:

Matthieu,

I think my question (if I were you) would be...

What is most important to me in a viewer/editor?

I have several editors, and I have my favorites, but no one editor is perfect.

The viewer/editors that I have:

Elmo 912 - easy to use, so-so dim image with lots of flickering, a workhorse for editing.

Goko RM-3003 - easy to use, so-so dim image with lots of flickering, very similar to the Elmo (no surprise since Goko made the Elmo) BUT, it has an electric drive. Priceless for someone like me with a cranky rotator cuff, and had a ton of Super 8mm to edit & splice!

Elmo S5 - a huge leap in viewer image quality, probably because of the glass (instead of plastic) lens, the viewing lens is smaller in area than the Elmo & Goko, and perhaps the internal mirrors are higher quality (don't know this for sure). If your can turn the take-up reel crank at the right speed, the image shown the viewer can approach near movie quality. The downsides to the S5 are that, for me, a bit more difficult for manipulating film in editing, and the capacity of the take up arms is limited to 400ft reels. Now, there is a 'mythical' Minette S5 600 that can handle 600ft reels, but I've never seen one except in Minette advertisement flyers. Nevertheless, the Minette S5 will remain when I start reducing my collection of Super 8mm equipment.

So, Matthieu, you need to consider what is most important to you in a viewer/editor. My experience is limited to the more popular editors with no sound editing capability, and maybe there is that 'best' viewer/editor for you. I'd guess that your choice will be a compromise in what you want for your use.

[ November 12, 2018, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: Kev Morrison ]

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on November 15, 2018, 05:08 PM:

I subscribe every word spoken on the Goko Rm8008. I have the equivalent Erno and, despite it's the top of the editors, has a DARK screen. Winbert is right, you have to get in that position, otherwise you see very little.
Then, in addition to the problem of the shaky image that often happens, it's also very sensitive as regards the audio, on the splices.
I opened the thread on the problem of the shake, then I solved buying same Erno, broken, but with working optical bench, and I replaced it.
If the Goko/Erno has the shaky image is unusable, it's a not inconsiderable defect.
I also agree with the brightness of those Minette S-2, I, in fact, have a Minette (small screen but very clear and very defined, almost like a projector) for the darkest films, and the Erno for the brightest films and for the audio editor.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on November 16, 2018, 08:21 AM:

Thanks, I go looking for a better RM8008 than.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on November 16, 2018, 10:02 AM:

Matthieu, if some piece should be useful (of course, free), I still have the broken Erno from which I took the optical bench. It misses the sound heads and the aforementioned optical bench, but the rest should be there (power section, screen, various electronics, chassis...).

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on November 16, 2018, 12:37 PM:

Thank you, I'll keep it in mind.
He did also have a Erno 903 (Mono), which have probably the same optical equipment, except for the sounddepartment.
I could buy them both, but the whole comes down tyo €100 than.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on November 22, 2018, 07:51 AM:

I just boughtr a Goko RM8008 from the marketplace for €32.
This viewer is amazing.
You have a large sturdy and heavy rewinder as well.
It's so easy to clean my films with Filmguard now.
I love the bright screen and having sound.
It's so easy to put your films on it or from it halfway, because of how the system works.

Can Someone tell me where I can mark the film, for splicing?
Or is my RM8008 incomplete, see picture?
It already misses the left record knob.

On my Goko MM1 I have a very easy system for that, not sure if I can put it on this Goko RM8008.
Another thing it does,...
About 4 times a second it wows a bit darker, like it adds the old film effect you see in movies sometimes.
Is this the NF system or is something else wrong?
Seems to me, if it is the NF, shouldn't he do this 24 times a second?

PS. Something to remember.
Splicing films together is a problem after adding Filmguard, since it won't stick anymore. I had to clean it off with a alcohol tissue for glasses. I did this with the ends of both parts (12 frames or so), and after splicing togetrher, I added Filmguard again and cleaned it.

[ November 22, 2018, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Matthieu van der Sluis ]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 22, 2018, 04:03 PM:

quote:
About 4 times a second it wows a bit darker, like it adds the old film effect you see in movies sometimes.
Is this the NF system or is something else wrong?

That signs of flickering but it is contradicted with the machine which is a Non-Flickers (NF) system. Can you show it on video to explain what you were talking about.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on November 22, 2018, 05:11 PM:

Matthieu, the RM8008 DOESN'T have a tip to mark the film. Strange for an editor of this level, eh ? I remember that the manual said to do it with a pencil (I would do a scan, but I do not have a scanner. However, if you need a particular page I see if I can do it at work.).

I have to pay attention to a 4fps you say, because I don't remember.

I see if I have the knob that you are missing, if I have it I can send it to you, but consider whether the cost of shipping is worthwhile (Italian post is a bit expensive).

I noticed another thing: if you look at your editor compared to the others, you will notice that your two volume knobs are not gray but black. This is because it's evident that on your editor previous user had an accessory that, with an oring, kept the two volume buttons connected, to make them go to the same level. But it's not a problem, you can use those buttons very well.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on November 28, 2018, 11:17 AM:

Thank you for the info.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on November 28, 2018, 02:11 PM:

These have a prism for the non flicker effect !!!!, and its made from optical glass, so easily damaged if you clean it. I think you are experiencing some of the flat lenses dusty or dirty from non use, you can clean these with the lens wipes, but be careful, let the solution do the cleaning and don't press too hard, also check the mirror is clean, this has an effect on the brightness of the lamp to screen over all.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on November 28, 2018, 02:48 PM:

Using a Chinagraph pencil to mark edit points would have been the professional way of doing it as it can be rubbed off, not by notching the film which would have been considered a low end technique.

Posted by Kev Morrison (Member # 6338) on November 29, 2018, 10:32 AM:

Matthieu, that 8008 is a nice looking editor! This is the first really good picture of one that I've seen. Can't recall seeing this specific editor for sale on eBay in the U.S.

Looks like this editor has the accessory mount point normally found on Goko, Elmo, etc. viewer/editors. If you can locate one of the hard-to-find film cleaners that fit in this mount, it may make it even easier to clean your films with Filmguard.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on November 29, 2018, 03:07 PM:

WOW thanks for all that usefull info.
I shall check the mirror and prisma for dust.
Seems like the logical explenation.
The unit was very dusty wwhen I bought it.

Chinagraph pencil,... I'm going to check if I can buy them here as well.

@ Kev. I have that cleaning accessoire, but when in use my 1200" reel does not fit.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on November 29, 2018, 05:39 PM:

This is has a 6v 10w lamp, anything put in the path of this tiny light output especially glass lens, will cut down the significantly when it has reached the screen, an led upgrade to this unit is long overdue......

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on November 30, 2018, 05:07 AM:

I have a very bright LED version of the MM1, but it shuts down the light when it gets hot al the time, so I turn Off the light when not in use during splicing.
I'm going to look if I can put this in the RM8008.
I already like the brightnes of this RM8008 already tho.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on November 30, 2018, 01:38 PM:

Matthieu, how do you find with the audio? This editor has a fantastic sound, uses the same magnetic heads of the GS 1200, has a superior quality to many projectors.
Only thing, the heads are very "pressing" and some splices can not pass perfectly or the recording can change according to the thickness of the film.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on December 01, 2018, 01:18 PM:

Audio is good, but I can hear only one track.
Probably need to go with cables or headphone to hear both?
I hoped I could use the same speaker inside for both when turning the knob.

I opened the RM8008 for cleaning.
Not that much to clean.

While looking I could not find the prisma tho.
I was expecting a square glas somewhere that turns.
I see:
- a big back mirror:

- a lens and smaller mirror

But I don't see a sqaere turning glas thingy there.
@ Paul Browning. Can you tell where that prisma is?
Do I need to open the front for that?

While making pictures, I added the seperated filmcleaner so you can see that as well.

[ December 02, 2018, 05:28 AM: Message edited by: Matthieu van der Sluis ]

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on December 02, 2018, 06:28 AM:

Its not a square thingy, but a 16 sided prism, if you look at the last small mirror pointing upwards, its above it in the made body housing....

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on December 02, 2018, 01:01 PM:

So I need to open the front of this machine to reach it.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on December 02, 2018, 02:27 PM:

No need to open up front of the unit, you can get at it from the back as your last picture shows. The small square mirror that's lay flat and pointing upward, the prism is just above this, if you start up the editor you will see this rotating as the film goes through the gate....

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on December 03, 2018, 03:50 PM:

Found it here:

I sticked an alcohol soaked tissue rolled around a toothpick and put it in there, just where the red arrow points, while rolling a film.
You can easily feel it touching the prisma al so slightly and I also rewinded the film in the gate, so I could move the prisma picture for picture and clean it that way.
After that I cleaned al the mirrors with the lens-alcohol soaked tissue and the focus lens on the front.
Results,...
It's amazing.
The picture is steady, bright and very sharp.

You guy's are amazingly helpfull, thanks.

I can buy another one for €50 that has the record buttons and origenal grey audio buttons which are black on mine.
That one had the same problem, but now I know how to fix it,...
Maybe I'll put one of them for auxion on ebay.
Not sure how much it's worth after cleaning the beauty, but even for using it as a electrical 1200" rewinder it is great.

[ December 04, 2018, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: Matthieu van der Sluis ]

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on December 04, 2018, 06:24 PM:

The front optical block where it is contained the prism can be removed even without opening the editor behind, but in your case it is useless, you have already cleaned well, getting to the important points. I have never found so many improvements with cleaning of prism and other piece, perhaps because my editor has always been clean.
As for the audio, you should be able to select one track at a time or both together, but the reasons why you do not hear either one can be many. You can also try cleaning the magnetic heads with the same method you used for the part of the image.
On the other hand, I don't recommend, for those who are not practical (me too!), to pick up heads from another similar editor: then heads should be recalibrated, and it is a work that is not said to be victorious.
The buttons, instead, are not a problem. I looked for the old ones of my "cannibalized" editor, but I did not find them, it has all the front part removed. However, performance does not improve (comfort apart): absent, blacks or grays. [Smile]

Actually, since you have black ones, you have the advantage of having to find only one belt of right measure and to be able to use the "contemporary sound" option, provided you have both tracks at work.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on December 06, 2018, 10:00 AM:

I checked it again, but I dont hear the second track of sound over the speaker, nomatter what I do.
Probably not as good as I hoped, but for the money I payed it is worth it.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on December 08, 2018, 07:41 PM:

If is the balance track that not working, for that price it's not a serious loss, it's a pity only to not be able the double recording or the rare stereo films.

Posted by Heinrich Kronschlaeger (Member # 145) on December 09, 2018, 12:47 PM:

With the speakers of the Goko 8008,you can only hear the first track when set to STEREO. When setting to MONO, you can hear track 1 and track 2. The botton for mono / stereo is located on the front down below on the right.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on December 10, 2018, 11:18 AM:

Whooo, I overlooked that button.
Just run to my Goko RM8008, put on a Stereofilm,... nothing.

Very sad.
I don't see any more hidden buttons that I need to use.

Still, a clever observation Heinrich

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on December 10, 2018, 11:35 AM:

You need another speaker plugged into it for stereo replay I would have thought, this only has one speaker.....

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on December 10, 2018, 03:49 PM:

Heinrich made a keen observation, I had forgotten that if selected on stereo it would not play the second track.
But, stereo sound aside, I had seemed to understand that Matthieu could not play the second track, even if not stereo, even alone.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on December 11, 2018, 03:58 AM:

Checked the two I have, the balance stripe sound is not heard on the mono speaker no matter what the position of the stereo switch, to listen to stereo recordings two speakers are needed, and there sockets are on the back for this, how you can hear a stereo recording with only one speaker is not possible, certainly not with this editor.....

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on December 11, 2018, 04:08 AM:

Had a Goko for years but I tend to use the Elmo 912 with a Halogen lamp conversion as its very quick loading and unloading with a big bright screen. Handy when spooling up and cleaning film.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on December 11, 2018, 08:43 AM:

Thanks Paul. Now I have to check this option.
Ain this keeping us fellows bussy hahaha.

I used my fathers Elmo 912 for years, and after that a Goko MM-1 with Halogen, but it's amazing and a relief working with this RM8008. It is a complete installation that's true. Almost like placing a projector. But this machine is sturdy and the weight helps during cleaning, without the need of putting the viewer back at his place everytime with my other hand, which I need for cleaning.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on December 11, 2018, 06:31 PM:

I confirm that for the STEREO audio two speakers are needed, but the contemporary sound on two tracks, which is not a stereo sound but a sound mix of the two tracks, is possible on this editor, like on many projectors. The "balance" knob at the bottom right is set up for this role, adjust how much one of the two should be heard louder. If both tracks are recorded (for example, voice on track 1 and music on track 2) the editorshould play both, otherwise there is a problem.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on December 12, 2018, 07:14 AM:

And thjat is what my RM8008 won't do.
I have to add an extra speaker to this RM8008 to make sure it has a defect, but I see I need a Jck cable to mij speaker for that.

Shoppingtime.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on December 13, 2018, 08:39 AM:

Stereo issue and external speakers apart...
Did you tell me, Matthieu, the one that not work is the main or the second track?
Have you tried if in addition to not playing it, the track can't even record it?
It should not be the same magnetic head doing the job, so maybe it could work one thing and the other not.

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