8mm Forum: Films bought by non-collectors?

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Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on May 26, 2018, 01:21 PM:

There's sometimes speculation that high prices of films sold on ebay have been pushed up due to bids from film memorabilia collectors who don't own projectors. I'm not claiming that this never happens and I can imagine a Star Wars collector thinking that (e.g.) a Ken 400' with the original box in good condition has an appealing retro charm, and they might even enjoy holding a few frames up to the light now and again to reflect on how domestic film viewing happened in the 'old days' And I can imagine some liking the idea of having the Derann feature if they are quite wealthy, especially if the box is in good shape and they know what version it is. Otherwise, though, I generally struggle to imagine the appeal of a feature to anyone that doesn't collect film, especially if it has been placed on larger spools and any original artwork is missing or cut up. If I was a non-film collector seeking material from (e.g.) the Alien series, I suspect I'd prefer a Ken 400' with an excellent condition box to a feature, because it would cost far less, look better on a shelf and take up less room. Edited versions are arguably part of the distinctive period charm of Super 8 releases from the mass market era.

So, I'm asking whether the appeal of Super 8 (or even 16mm) to non-collectors is mostly speculation, or is anyone aware of hard facts which conclusively indicate that they are freqently bidding high for films and pushing up prices? Part of the reason I'm unsure is because Super 8 advert reels have been attracting plenty of high bidders on ebay recently - I saw one 200' reel go for over £70 a few days ago and others were selling for over £50. I can't imagine that these would be of great interest to memorabilia collectors, but film collectors know they will become increasingly hard to find, and you can't easily buy a digital alternative.

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on May 26, 2018, 08:49 PM:

Some adverts and cinema tags have sold for amazing prices the last few days.

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on May 26, 2018, 09:47 PM:

I think they are just hard to find and when they do show up for sale there is enough demand that they sell high. Are these ad reel sales auctions or BIN sales?

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on May 31, 2018, 09:46 AM:

The ad reels offered recently have been auctions with very reasonable starting prices.

Interesting to see that no one has so far been able to offer evidence to support the theory that non-collectors are having a significant impact in relation to pushing up the prices of films. I might try raising this in film memorabilia collecting circles, to see if I hear of cases in which film is on the radar of those who don't own projectors.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on May 31, 2018, 10:20 AM:

I sometimes wonder if these 'Star Wars' prints are going to the 'Star Wars' fans, who collect everything, books, mags, mugs, tee shirts, etc.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on May 31, 2018, 10:42 AM:

I suspect it can happen but how often? You would not only have to be looking around very comprehensively for Super 8 to be on your radar, but in the case of a feature, wouldn't a possible cost of around $1,000 put off anyone that isn't wealthy?

It would also be interesting to know if any such people have bought a film, and then invested in a projector, so that they can get more fun from their 'collectable'!

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 31, 2018, 11:38 AM:

You're quite quite right, Robert ..

i once sold a perint of STAR WARS for 1000,00 to a fellow who didn't even own a projector ...

So I sold him a projector! He came in person from idaho Falls to pick up the film, (I live in Mountain Home). I did not have an extra scope lense though.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on June 01, 2018, 02:22 AM:

Hello Adrian

Regarding the low response to this subject - fulfilling your 'hard and fast facts' criteria is the most likely cause as a seller of films would need to provide screenshots or email copies of conversations which would be private to themselves and the purchaser.

Your best bet would be to track down memorabilia collectors to get a feel for their psyche when it comes to owning something related to their collecting genre that few others own.

When I have sold films to non film collectors I have just been happy they bought the film as it is then theirs to do with as they wish.

You can't expect that all films will be projected wherever they end up and from my own experience £££s are rarely a consideration once the bidding gets going - if someone wants an item the price can go far higher than the winner originally planned to pay in the heat of the moment.

Kevin

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on June 01, 2018, 09:07 PM:

Kevin - I should say that when I refer to "hard facts", I don't mean reveal documented proof - I'm just seeking exactly the sort of information that you and Osi have provided. When it comes to most sales, sellers wouldn't generally know whether or not the buyer was a film collector, so your experience is notable for including people who have revealed this, even if they didn't reveal the motivation. That has never happened to me despite selling a lot of films over the years, although many that I've sold have been on Bring and Buy stalls at BFCCs, so I'd be confident that these were bought by collectors!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 02, 2018, 02:00 AM:

i'm not too sure on this subject myself. At the end of the day, if, for example, i was a star wars fanatic, and i paid a thousand for the feature on ebay as a a non collector it wouldn't take long to work out that all you need to watch your treasure is a projector and these come up in abundance on ebay. Researching anything these days is relatively easy for everyone with the internet.
There are hardened cine collectors who buy for the sake of it and amass thousands of films. How do you ever get around to viewing them? I struggle with 580. I agree that there is bound to be some people who collect cine films but probably never view them, i guess i call them hoarders. It would seem pointless having a collection of movies if you never intend to view. [Wink]

I put a 200ft cartoon up on ebay a couple of years ago, (motor mania, goofy), it went for over £80, if i could get that for all my 200s I'd sell them today, then use the money for some 16mm features. For one (maybe two), of those £70 200ft reels you could get a 16mm feature.
The advert reels do have a lot of appeal, most of them are superb in quality and of course, they are essential to create the reel cinema feeling as show openers. I wish i bought all of them as they were released but we do have 15 at present. I was browsing through some of the old film for the collector magazines the other night, During one period in the 90s, it looked like Derann released a new advert reel every three months.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on June 02, 2018, 03:47 AM:

I'm sure that there must be Trekkies, who would jump at the chance to own an original TV print, even if they didn't own a projector.

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