8mm Forum: EUMIG 824 not working

This is topic EUMIG 824 not working in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=012488

Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 07, 2018, 01:31 AM:

hi, all,
i bought a EUMIG 824 sonomatic from ebay but its faulty, in fact nothing spins, in forward or reverse, nothing..i opened the back ( only had one loose screw) and the motor is not spinning the shaft that would make contact with the disc.. is does however hum..i fitted a new bulb and it lights ok.. the main control knob often just spins.. the on off often does not work..and.. it has no lens [Roll Eyes]

what is the most likely cause of the motor shaft not spinning please ? cheers rob [Wink]

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on September 07, 2018, 01:48 AM:

My guess is that the motor bearings have failed. They are made from a type of plastic that degrades and crumbles. You will probably find that the disc on the motor shaft is in full contact with the drive disc and the pressure is stopping the motor shaft from turning. You can verify this by watching what happens when you operate the main control switch. If the disc on the motor shaft remains in full contact with the drive disc in the off position, then that is the problem.
Unfortunately it sounds like the projector has been abused, but it can be resurrected with some work if you are so inclined.

Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 07, 2018, 02:04 AM:

Thanks for your reply Terry, i will look into this later, i did notice the disc moves to the left ( from behind) when put into play / forward.. but the shaft itself, does not spin in any direction. also the shaft does not move when put into reverse..
yes it has been abused, i am new to cine projectors and have bought a few in the last 2 weeks..( carried away) [Big Grin]

unfortunately i dont have much spare cash so ive had to buy cheap, im not adverse to fixing things, in fact i enjoy it, but as the projectors are new to me im just seeking advice.
Rob [Smile]

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on September 07, 2018, 03:17 AM:

From what you say it sounds like the motor bearings have failed but replacements are available from Wittners or other sources I believe. You could make them yourself from resin. A bit fiddly but quite possible. You just need to salvage the brass bearings that are mounted in the original plastic housing.
Before you attempt to replace the mounts just have a good look at the originals and it should be obvious if the plastic housing has degraded.

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on September 07, 2018, 03:35 AM:

hi Robert I have 20 super 8 projecters which run bit can used for spares they are £20.00 each

Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 07, 2018, 05:30 AM:

ok Terry all noted thanks, i will probably buy replacement rather than make them though [Smile]

Rob

Hi David, thanks for that, not sure if you have any 824's but i am looking for something with sound that ideally can do super 8 and standard, i believe ( from what i have read) the Eumig 824 is sought after and is a particularly good machine..so if i cannot repair, than i will get something else. Regards Rob

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 07, 2018, 09:54 AM:

The 824 was the last dual gauge Eumig and was their best. It has more features than earlier models, and is more modern looking as it's finished in black.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on September 07, 2018, 04:39 PM:

Van Eck also produce the motor mounts for the 800 series of Eumig projectors. Probably cheaper than Wittners, but still quite expensive. https://van-eck.net/itable.php?lang=en&cat=film

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on September 07, 2018, 08:13 PM:

Before you spend to much time, money and effort on that projector, you should see if you can find a lens for it.

Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 07, 2018, 10:06 PM:

Hi Maurice, yes it does seem to be a very well thought of projector,
I will most definitely fix it up.

Terry, thanks for the link, i will look at Wittners you mentioned too.

Barry, i emailed Van Eck before i bought it, they do have the original lens in stock for £36.no doubt other lenses will fit also.
https://shop.van-eck.net/LS-0131.html

This projector was listed as "working great when put into the loft space" so yet another less than honest ebayer [Roll Eyes]

hey ho, live and learn..

thanks everyone Rob [Smile]

Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on September 08, 2018, 08:03 AM:

Hello, Robert. In your initial post you wrote "the main control knob often just spins.. the on off often does not work". The control knob can't be engaging properly with the mechanism for it to spin. As Terry said, the bearings are likely to have failed, so causing the motor to drop out of position.

Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 08, 2018, 08:28 AM:

Hi Will,
yes sometimes the control knob works, but not often, you can just slide it off.. the thing is the motor shaft that i would assume normally rotates, does not, even when i manage to get it into the play position.. there is no spinning of anything on the motor.. would this also coincide with faulty mounts ? thanks Rob

Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on September 08, 2018, 12:20 PM:

The motor shaft should rotate freely. It sounds like the shaft has seized due to lack of use. I had this problem with a Sankyo the other week. It took a fair while to free it up using penetrating oil. There's a fan at the bottom end of the shaft which will help you to get the shaft moving. As you'll be removing the motor assembly to fix the motor mountings, it'll be easier then to work on freeing the shaft up.

Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 08, 2018, 11:16 PM:

Hi Will, yes, what you suggest makes sense, [Wink]

as im sure i would at least see it spin, even if the mounts are damaged,i will take it apart and investigate.
regards Rob [Smile]

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on September 09, 2018, 02:00 AM:

Robert
What I was trying to explain was that when the motor mounts fail, the motor does not react to the main control.switching position. The position of the motor is critical for it to work correctly. Too much pressure of the spinning disc on the big drive disc and the motor will slow down and even stop altogether. Too little pressure and there will not be enough traction to drive the mechanism.
In your case I would guess that the motor is so out of true that the little 'spinning ' disc is permanently in contact with the drive disc, preventing the motor shaft from turning.
When the projector is powered up the motor shaft will be spinning under normal circumstances, so if you are able to physically move the motor so that spinning disc is clear of the drive disc, the motor should work. This will determine whether
the motor is ok or not. BUT BE CAREFUL! Everything is live, so unless you are confident/competent, it might be better to wedge the motor in an upright position while it is powered down and then power it up and see what happens.

Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 09, 2018, 03:48 AM:

Hi Terry. it was me probably not explaining things clearly, the default vertical position of the shaft is, as it should be when not switched, but there is NO spinning of the shaft under any circumstance.. so maybe its is seized .. i will find out in good time..
as for the safety note, while it is appreciated, i am a radio amateur and have been messing with electronics for a long time so if i send myself across the room.. its my own fault [Wink]

regards Rob

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on September 09, 2018, 05:58 AM:

Glad to hear that you are experienced with electronics [Smile]

As has been mentioned previously, the motor also drives the fan underneath and I wonder if the fan is jammed on the aluminium housing. That would be a probable cause. I have never known a Eumig motor to seize, so I am just trying to think of other possibilities.
Do let us know your progress.

Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 09, 2018, 07:32 AM:

i will do Terry, IF the motor is BER i could possibly get one from another model as they all seem to be similar, but that's something i'll look into at the time.
Regards Rob

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2