8mm Forum: Use longer arms!

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Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 13, 2019, 11:48 AM:

People ask me about using longer arms! Well you can! If you have the St800 or GS800. Use the 1200 ft. Arms. For ST800 use ST1200 arms. For GS800 use GS1200 arms. Only draw back is the arms will not fold all the way! These arms I have in stock! Longer shows are better!

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 17, 2019, 04:07 PM:

This is an interesting one, Leon.

I have an ST-800 standing next to an ST-1200HD and actually the 1200 foot reel arms would fold in on the ST-800 because the 800 foot arms fold in with a gap between the ends.

It gets more complicated where the last guide before the takeup reel is concerned. The ST-800 guide reaches up to the edge of an 800 foot reel and won't clear a 1200 foot reel even with the longer arm.

The last guide has a roller in the middle of it where the same guide on the ST-1200 ends (in 1200 Foot mode). It should be possible to cut the ST-800 guide short after this roller or maybe swap in the guide from an ST-1200.

I may try this on one of mine. 1200 Foot machines are very useful.

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on February 17, 2019, 07:24 PM:

I once considered this very thing when I had a ST800. The one main reason why I did not follow through was the thought of a very heavy 1200 foot reel and based on the interior or slightly forward rear feet My only vision was the ST 800 popping a wheelie before the end of the reel.

Notice on the ST1200 the rear feet are closer to the rear of the box!

Mission to modify the ST800 aborted.

Steve: build a long play spooler device and insert any projector to it.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 17, 2019, 07:36 PM:

It's a thought, Chip, but I project from the dining room table and two machines and a mixer pretty much full time is already pushing my luck! [Wink]

(It's my wife's house too!)

Good point about the location of the rear feet: I'll have to hang an equivalent weight on the rear spindle and see what happens. (-for Science!)

OK: I gave it a try and the ST-800 stayed firmly on the front leg:

Actually, if either of the two had the feet moved to the back, maybe it should have been the ST-800: the power transformer will be the single heaviest part and the ST-800 has it mounted astern (ST-1200 has it mounted topside and amidships: between the front and back legs even in ST-800 position.).

Where this could run into trouble is the ST-1200 has a much stronger rewind: the ST-800 sometimes overpowers the front clutch at the end of a full 800 foot rewind. As it stands it may not tolerate rewinding 1200 feet.

(-but if you are among the folk that use rewinds...)

Posted by Thomas Knappstein (Member # 6134) on February 17, 2019, 10:21 PM:

ST 1200 with 3000ft Reels.
And the Machine could be put in the original Transport Case.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on February 18, 2019, 05:19 AM:

Many years ago I bought some Supa Spools from UK's Tony Churcher for my ST-1200. The spools were heavy steel, same OD as the standard Elmo 1200ft but with a smaller centre to accommodate 1600ft.
Sounded a great idea. But didn't work. [Embarrassed]

The spools were too heavy and just slowed down and stopped before taking up a full spool.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 18, 2019, 12:49 PM:

Thomas, How does it do when rewinding? The st1200 always had rewind problems! They would slow down towards the end of reel!But that problem can be taken care of!

Posted by Ethan S. Knightchilde (Member # 3617) on February 18, 2019, 12:53 PM:

Leon--what is the solution for the ST1200 rewind slow down?

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 18, 2019, 01:05 PM:

Ethan, Take the rewind gear. Its the double one . one small and one large. Take it apart and clean it. Then take the spring and stretch. More you stretch more the strength! Put all back together. Then try it! OK Ethan! Also clean with alcohol!

Posted by John Capazzo (Member # 157) on February 18, 2019, 01:15 PM:

Leon, I've had success with rewind on ST 1200 that way, too; but not for long. I found tighter motor belt and that solved the problem. They're supposed to be square, but I only found a round belt that was smaller; about 3-4 mm smaller in circumference. That clutch assembly is very fickle and doesn't have the spring as the D and HD and only one belt as opposed to two motors belts the D and HD has. A smaller motor belt has an effect on the way it plays in FWD and fast rewind. I've come across dozens of these machines. Not only that, but only one sprocket on each side for the rewind belt. You can also make the rewind belt pulleys the same as the D and HD if you have the extra parts. The housing is the same on the body of the machine.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 18, 2019, 01:25 PM:

John, It always worked for me! By stretching the spring! And clamping it down with robogrips! They put pressure on it! Or replace the spring with a more thicker one! The more pressure the more strength! Makes sence!

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 18, 2019, 02:02 PM:

Wow [Cool]

That's impressive Thomas [Smile]

Folks I think if you are going to use larger than 1200ft reels then a long play unit is the way to go, especially with the GS1200 with its dinky toy take up motor.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 18, 2019, 02:47 PM:

Thomas, Were did you get the large reels? I use the supaspools that are 2400 ft. Very light weight! And I still have room! I could use reels like that! And my modified rewind would handle it! I never new they had even larger reels! Those Elmo GS1200 motors are very strong! They hold up pretty good!

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 18, 2019, 03:36 PM:

The first time I pulled one of those GS1200 motors apart I was disappointed to see how small the diameter of the commutator was. Its little wonder they wear out, plus its only got two tiny brushes running on it to do all the work. I can understand fitting long arms when the projectors were new 40 years ago, but with wear due to there age now, fitting long arms is asking to much from worn motors.

The best bet really, is buying or making your own long play unit, and limit projector arms themselves to no more than 1200ft of film.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 18, 2019, 03:50 PM:

Graham, I have the motors in stock! They are still sealed from Elmo. So I'm in good shape for motors! I have plenty!

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on February 18, 2019, 04:03 PM:

Weren't projectors manufactured to a certain tolerance?

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 18, 2019, 04:26 PM:

Not the GS1200! I will tell that I had the motors on my machine for years! And no problems! So far no takeup and rewind motor replacement! I'm telling you these motors last! The only thing I had that went bad is the motor gear. But I took care of that! I replaced them with the all brass ones. They will never go bad! Made to last! I know this machine inside and out! I worked on to many of them! If I get around to it I will take some pictures of my machine ! For all to see!

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 18, 2019, 06:40 PM:

Here is a video I made a while ago regarding those motors...note the grime and wear on the brushes and commutator. It takes years of use to get like this, most of the problems with the take- up/rewind motors is down to this..... old age.

https://vimeo.com/260705521

PS I do hope no one here rewinds large reels of film on the projector, if you do you are asking for trouble with those old motors/gears.

Use hand winders folks [Smile]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 18, 2019, 07:05 PM:

Sometimes longer arms just don't work.

-when you reach the point where you can't drive the car without opening the windows you've taken it too far!

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 19, 2019, 11:11 AM:

Thomas, On your machine the ST1200. It looks like a GS1200 focus knob on it ? I have put several on the st1200. And it looks good. It sticks out. Which makes it easy to focus! I have some left in stock! Still sealed!

Posted by Thomas Knappstein (Member # 6134) on February 19, 2019, 10:34 PM:

Hi Leon!
First I will say that rewinding this big reels on the machine is impossible. I only use a seperate selfmade Motor Rewinder for all my full length Films. Smaller Reels can be rewind on this ST 1200 as well as on an original one.
The Focus Knob is a GS1200 one because of using my Focus remute Unit which is made for thie GS Knob.
I have installed a seperate take up gear Motor n this Machine because of using the ESS Sync System which was copying from the GS Machine. I was in the little grey Box.
I have all my GS 1200 Machines moddet with long Arms since 5 Years ago. All running very well.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 20, 2019, 11:21 AM:

Thomas,I'll stick with the 2000 or 2400 ft reels on!y! My machine rewinds these reels with ease! That's large enuff!. Those Elmo motors the 5-6 volts are tough! They hold up pretty good!

Posted by Thomas Knappstein (Member # 6134) on February 20, 2019, 10:16 PM:

Hi Leon!
Yes that is true, my GS 1200 are rewinding easy too. But this modified ST1200 does not.
The 3000ft Reels I have made by my self. They are large enough to play ALIENS or Magnificent Men without a Break.

Hi Graham!
This Motors are strong enough to handle this big Reels without any Problem. The Gear inside the Elmo make them even stronger. And on this little Control Board you can trimm the Potis to get more Torque.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 21, 2019, 10:50 AM:

Thomas, you did a great job on those reels! Also try this on your st1200 rewind! Take the double rewind gears. Take it apart and clean it. After that take the spring and stretch it. I use a tool called Robocrips! They do the job! Or if you have a heavier spring use that. The pressure the more strength! That rewind will zip away! Again more pressure the more strength! Again great reel job!

Posted by Thomas Knappstein (Member # 6134) on February 21, 2019, 11:29 AM:

Leon This ST 1200 is not driven by the original Motor.
I have spend him a DC Motor for ESS Sync like the GS 1200 has.
The original Main Motor only drive the Fan for Lamp cooling.
So it is not so strong to rewind very big Reels.
Look at the Inside of this Machine and the electronic Box.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 21, 2019, 11:54 AM:

Thomas, I see the gear I was telling you adout! It sits up top! If you can get to it.Its behind the motor you have up top! It looks nice!

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