8mm Forum: Bell & Howell FilmoSound Sync & Minolta AutoPak Sync

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Posted by Noah Henderson (Member # 7057) on August 16, 2019, 05:50 PM:

Hello everyone! I'm new to the forums, but this seems to be a great resource for all things small gauge related. I'm currently trying to wrap my head around somethings at the moment concerning Super 8 and sync audio. So I've been looking at the Bell and Howell Filmosound workflow and how it slaves the camera to the old tape recorder via a cable. Then from there it goes into a Filmosound projector to sync things up on projection playback.

I'm acquiring the pieces to be able to do this so I can have sound with reversal film that I shoot and project, but I would like to know can this system be digitized to have synced film transfers. If the film is transferred by my lab and then I also transfer the audio from the cassette tape will they be able to sync up when I put them into an editing program. Or is there a way to make them sync up somehow. I know the projector would be slaved to this recorder for syncing audio on projection playback, but is there a way to have that work in a digital transfer. Also is there any issue with using standard blank cassette tapes for the recordings?

In a similar vein, I have access to a Minolta Autopak D6 and its proprietary cassette recording cable. Minolta's information on this says it can be used with any standard cassette recorder, but I can't find much information beyond that. Is it essentially the same system as Filmosound?

Any help is greatly appreciated. I put together youtube videos on Super 8 and I'm tackling the various ways sync sound was achieved on the format. If I can get this to work then I'd like to use footage in the videos for it. This requires me being able to do longer takes with sync audio.

Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 17, 2019, 08:35 AM:

I don't know the specifics of the equipment you are using, but I think it would be unlikely a lab would be prepared to transfer your sound to the stripe of the film, or film scan because of copyrights, assuming you use music that is not of your own making.

That's if I have read your post correctly.

Using cassette tape is ok but use a decent Chrome tape and Dolby noise reduction if available, get a good signal level on to the tape. Make sure the heads and capstan are clean.

That said, I would be inclined to make a list of shots and timings and work entirely in the digital domain to create an accompanying audio track.

Even a free program like audacity can do basic multi track work.

A lot of cassette capstans were belt driven and all these years later, altho' it may still play, it may be liable to drifting in time if the drive belt is perished or on its way out.

If your films are heading to youtube I would have thought it easier to make the audio track in a video edit, as I do, once my films are scanned.

You don't need to spend a fortune on a video edit program, I use MoviePlus X6 which was $30

Both Shotcut and DaVinci Resolve are free video editors

Being able to cut audio to picture with frame accuracy is a lot of fun.

You will have to be careful what music, if any, you use, youtube are very good at blocking out well known tunes.

That said, I get away with a great deal of music on my videos as long as I dont mind the odd advert.

one of my super 8 music edits

[ August 17, 2019, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 17, 2019, 01:46 PM:

I'm not totally clear on whether you want to add audio while projecting your film or after it has been transferred ... or both.

Since sound stripped film is no longer sold...the film would have to have an audio stripe applied to the film before you could add an audio track. Yes, I guess you could go the synced tape recorder route...but I personally prefer going completely digital at this point in time. In any case you will have to record the audio separately.

I can only advise you on syncing sound to digitally transferred film. If you are planning on syncing sound to your own shot footage I would recommend using a digital sound recorder not a tape recorder. It is just simpler. This way you can either connect the recorder directly to you computer or insert the SSD card if it uses one.

You can then import the transferred footage (either professionally transferred or DIY) into your computer's video editing program and sync the sound up.

Here is an example of a commercial sound striped film I telecined and later synced with the audio. The beginning demonstrate how I do my own film transfers and at the end the result synced with sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc2615MSLaI

The sound on this film contained the film sound stripe which I ran on an Super 8mm sound projector to transfer the audio to digital. If you were to separately record the audio digitally for your own films you would only have to transfer the digital file to your computer.

Posted by Nantawat Kittiwarakul (Member # 6050) on August 17, 2019, 08:22 PM:

Using a digital audio recorder would be a much more practical choice imho.
1. Using it in conventional/classic "double system" approach. Have a slate clapping at the begining of every shot. Then syncing it up in your editing program (assuming that your finished work will be in digital format).
2. Or if your camera can output sync pulse to recorder, that would make your life easier by not having to clap the slate at every shot. [Wink]

But if you insist on doing it in pure analog way, that's another story. [Roll Eyes]

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