8mm Forum: Pathe 'Son'

This is topic Pathe 'Son' in forum 9.5mm for sale/trade/wanted at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on March 19, 2012, 02:21 PM:

OK, I've had a couple of glasses of red, I'm in a good mood, sitting by the frenchie windows with a cool breeze coming in from the garden-it's 7pm) and I'm thinking; 'what would I really like to have that I've always wanted?' (film wise of course!) Up pops a real nerdy home movie type thought - I'd like a Pathescope Son projector. Before you hardened 9.5vers tell me that this was the most troublesome machine ever invented, I have to say that it's the gadget that I wanted as a youngster from the time I saw it in a catalogue, yet I have never even seen one in the flesh, and I'm now bloomin' old!
So there you have it, it must be a working model, and not cost a king's ransom (I'm not that drunk!)
Will I get killed in the rush, or will I die waiting?

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on March 20, 2012, 03:38 PM:

Hi Alan, I have seen the SON adverised on Ebay fro time to time and they also sometimes turn up and the Group 9.5 Spring Fair or Get Together. However, I can only repeat that no self respecting 9.5er would touch them with a barge pole. The tortuous film path tears 9.5mm film to shreds, and the motor overheats and burns out. However they do seem to sell at quite high prices as collectors items for display purposes. I know a few people who have them for this reason. 9.5mm sound prints in good condition are increasingly rare these days partly due to the SON and partly due to the film stock used by Pathescope in the 1940s which I understand was cut from cheap newsreel stock which was never intended to be kept for long and becomes very brittle. This results in splitting across the sprocket hole particularly with the extreme flexing of the SON film path. However, Good Luck with your search. Ken Finch.

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on March 21, 2012, 05:14 AM:

Thanks Ken, I've learned something from your reply, I wasn't aware of that kind of cost cutting on the part of Pathescope. I find the idea that the Son is a contributing cause of the scarcity of 9.5 film hilarious but possibly true, by some accounts I've heard!
I remember when I applied to join a renting library as a youngster in the fifties, they stipulated that my projector must have sprockets, but to my surprise they accepted my 'Ace' as ok! I noticed that many prints had that tell tale scratch that floated about in the middle of the frame, so the claw mechinism on many machines must have been very badly adjusted--or perhaps they were 'Son' users?

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on March 21, 2012, 05:57 AM:

Morning Allan. It’s a shame you are not a bit closer as we always get plenty of 9.5 sound films at our film fair in April up here and last year a couple of decent sound projectors were snapped up for the gauge as well. Personally I wouldn’t say sound films were that scarce unlike the 1970’s when we started hunting them which was near impossible. The 4th East Lancashire Film Fair Sat 21st April 2012. Antley Methodist Church Hall, Blackburn Rd, Accrington BB50DE. 2 dealer rooms full of film and fun.

Regards to the old home county!

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on March 21, 2012, 02:13 PM:

Hi Alan, Its amazing how many of us started with a Pathe ACE. I saved up my 6 bob a week paper round money to buy mine from Wings the Chemists in Woolwich. Then discovered Butcher Kernow in Blackheath village had a library. They were happy for me to use it on condition that they gave me a test film first. They also taught me a great deal about how to look after the films and the projector. Regarding the 9.5 sound films, notice I stated "in good condition". It is also a fact that fewer sound films, 6 and 9 reelers, were printed and sold compared to the silents. There were also far fewer sound film libraries. Ken Finch.

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on March 21, 2012, 03:47 PM:

This is all terribly nostalgic! My 9.5 library was R.Middleton, a chemist in the Goldhawk road, Shepherds Bush. It was a great thrill taking home the latest film. His collection was silent only, and you're right, Ken, my 1956-7 Pathescope catalogue shows that out of 133 libraries in the British isles only 30 handled sound prints, ironically one being in Bromley before I moved here.
Your fairs sound great, Lee, I joined group 9.5 some time ago, but haven't been to a meeting for ages due to leg problems, though hope to return soon. Their quarterly magazine is very interesting to an old film fuddy duddy like me.
Incidentally, while on the subject, the lace up on the 'Gem' looks more or less the same as the 'Son', being a silent version, so has this proved equaly damaging to the film?

[ March 26, 2012, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Allan Broadfield ]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on March 26, 2012, 04:19 PM:

I share Allan's passion for the 'Son' projector. When I was into 9.5mm as a teenager, I had a Pathescope ACE and a Dekko projector. I used to rent silent Pathescope films every weekend from a photo shop in Cardiff. It was magical, and I never tired of cranking those 300 foot reels of Popeye, Charlie Chaplin, Hopalong Cassidy, Betty Boop, and the edited Hitchcock silent films such as Blackmail and The Ring, and the German 'Mountain' films such as 'White Hell of Pitz Palu'.

But these were all silent films and I knew that sound was where it was at, thus the yearning for the Pathescope 'Son', which to me was the ultimate home cinema projector. I would spend hours gazing at one in a shop window of a Cardiff arcade, but it was forever beyond my reach.
I have read the horror stories of the 'Son'. Kev F bought one a few years back, and gave up trying to restore it. But I love the look of the 'Son, it is very elegant and quite different from any other sound projector ever made. It even has an 'eye'! It makes a great display machine.

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on March 27, 2012, 07:37 AM:

As I said, I never saw a 'Son' in the flesh, but used to gaze at the advert for it in a Pathescope catalogue. Years later, I wrote on the off chance to Grahame Newnham who is the 'guru' for all things 9.5 today, and he very kindly dug out a spare copy, which bought it all back! I think what appealed to me about the 'Son' was the rather dynamic design, quite different to all the other models. Also it was reputed to be the cheapest sound machine on the market, though still a long way off for me!

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on March 30, 2012, 12:51 PM:

Hi Alan, I case you are still interested, there is a Pathe SON for sale on E Bay currently at 99p with 2 days to go, Hertfordshire, buyer collects. It seems to be missing the lens which is not really a problem. Sorry I can't give any reference as I am not sufficiently computer literate!! Its listed under Pathescope and 9.5mm projectors. Ken Finch. [Embarrassed]

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on March 31, 2012, 06:33 AM:

Wow, the bodywork looks pretty unscathed apart from the missing lens. Also of interest on the list under 'Pathescope' is the Pathescope Mark VIII 8mm projector, which looks like a hybrid of the 'Son' and 'Gem' family. I wish my home was big enough to create my own little museum!
Update-the 'Son' went for £93 at the end of the auction. Not a bad price, but the seller had no idea of the condition and there was no lens supplied, so it could have been good for nothing. A chance you take, I suppose, though there were some films supplied too. If the buyer is a member of the forum perhaps he'll let us know.

[ April 04, 2012, 03:42 AM: Message edited by: Allan Broadfield ]

Posted by Alwyn Jones (Member # 3062) on June 26, 2012, 09:19 AM:

Pathe Son on eBay in the UK now, four hours left as I write:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150838252373?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l 2649

Appears to have motor fault. Bit late to post here, I know, only just found it.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on October 06, 2012, 07:33 AM:

Allan said:

quote:
the lace up on the 'Gem' looks more or less the same as the 'Son'

This was one of the problems with the Son (£78 new). I had one for a short time in the 60s.

It must have seemed an easy idea to Pathescope to add sound to the Gem. But they seemed to have forgotten that 9.5mm silent film comes off the feed spool from the back (anti-clockwise), whereas 9.5mm sound film feeds from the front (clockwise). This makes the feed to the claws rather tortuous with some tight turns often causing cement splices to come apart.

The other problem was that the Gem was designed as a silent projector to run at 16fps, whereas the Son had to go at 50% more speed for its 24fps. And what a din that caused, the motor screaming away whilst trying to hear the sound from the speaker!

The Son didn't last long in my collection, it was replaced by the 16mm GB L516. But that's another story.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on October 06, 2012, 09:52 AM:

Maurice's account of the Son is consistent with that of others who have owned this machine. Despite its faults, I have to say that it is one of the most attractive looking projectors ever produced. As Colin Cowles says in his book on 9.5mm collecting, commenting on the beauty of the Son, quote " When the 900ft silver reels are placed on the upward sweeping curved arms it perfectly balances the solid effect of the main projector with downward curves- black against silver and a wonderfully eye-catching design- you see for me it was almost a bonus that these machines worked and projected film".

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on October 07, 2012, 11:29 PM:

Allan, The Son and the Gem are what I consider "lookers" not "users" because even at 16fps the Gem is a dangerous one to run your films through because it is reliant on the film being in perfect condition so as to never lose the lower loop (check out the threading pattern on the image). If a bad splice goes through and you lose the loop it will simply scrape the film across the bottom of the machine while tearing the sprockets as it passes through the gate..I know this because the Gem was my first projector since I thought it looked the coolest....Now it sits passively on the shelf looking cooler than ever.....

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on October 08, 2012, 09:26 AM:

It's been spelt out quite graphically that the 'Son' is great to look at but potentially dangerous (known some ladies like that). Somehow makes it all the more desirable, but that's me.

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