8mm Forum: HATS OFF 9.5 fragment wanted

This is topic HATS OFF 9.5 fragment wanted in forum 9.5mm for sale/trade/wanted at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on June 07, 2017, 11:15 AM:

Cheers, Shorty

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on June 07, 2017, 02:35 PM:

Yeah - and I'd like the full film. Then I could retire to the Bahamas [Razz]

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on June 08, 2017, 10:45 AM:

Well, heard a slight rumor there might be a piece of it in France somewhere

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on June 08, 2017, 07:04 PM:

The French title of this lost film is : "Plus de chapeau".

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 09, 2017, 02:40 AM:

Despite an extensive and ongoing search "Hats Off" (1927) remains the only Laurel & Hardy film to be lost in its entirety. A similar storyline was used five years later with "The Music Box".

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on June 09, 2017, 06:33 PM:

Interesting little article. Maybe some day it will appear. I didn't know a Tree in a test tube was a rarity upto 1969.

Less than five years ago a very interesting blurb was posted on a Laurel and Hardy website’s message board. The posting made the startling declaration that the long-lost 1927 L&H film Hats Off had been discovered and was tied up in negotiations with various video companies for future release. This was not the first and I expect it will not be the last time that a rumor or claim is made that this film has been found.

Laurel and Hardy fans have had the rug pulled out from under them so many times when it comes to the discovery of this film that it seems impossible that it will ever turn up. But let me be the first to say that I will almost guarantee that Hats Off will be found in my lifetime (I can’t speak for yours). Just look at Laurel and Hardy history and see that the odds are stacked in our favor.

In 1973 Richard W. Bann published the first definitive Laurel and Hardy filmography, which became gospel for over fifteen years. Prior to this, there existed no complete filmography – not even Stan Laurel’s handwritten version. The existence of The Tree in a Test Tube was not common knowledge until 1969. The boys’ cameos in On the Loose, Wild Poses, On the Wrong Trek, and The Stolen Jools were popping up to collectors one-by-one and not included on earlier lists. At some point we all became accustomed and comfortable with this list of 105 films, confident that there would be no more ‘popping up.’

duck.jpgWe had our list of 105, but there were five ‘missing films’: Duck Soup, Why Girls Love Sailors, Hats Off, The Battle of the Century, and The Rogue Song. In 1974, Duck Soup was the first of these to miraculously re-surface. It was found in the format of a French 9.5mm home movie edition. Subsequently, a Belgian 35mm reissue provided us with a beautiful print to enjoy. Currently the only missing element from Duck Soup is the original English title cards.

027.jpgThe pie-fight sequence from The Battle of the Century, although incomplete and re-edited, was saved by Robert Youngson when he prepared his 1958 compilation The Golden Age of Comedy. The negative that he used was already in an advanced state of decomposition and only this portion was salvaged by Youngson. In 1979, we got to taste another missing piece of the Laurel and Hardy pie with the discovery of the opening boxing match scene. Even with this surviving footage, less than half of the complete film is known to exist.

why.jpgIt was not until 1985 that the major discovery of a French 16mm print of Why Girls Love Sailors took place. Unfortunately, the quality was poor, appearing extremely grainy and murky. But as Stan said “Any bird can build a nest, but it isn’t everyone that can lay an egg.” In 2000, an original European 35mm nitrate camera negative was located bringing viewers the opportunity to see this once-lost treasure in glorious pristine format.

roguesong22.jpgThe Rogue Song has remained one of the most intriguing and frustrating of the lost films, mainly because it is one of the very few examples of the boys in color. Although their footage amounts to less than twenty minutes of the nearly two-hour film, it has been placed on the American Film Institute’s top ten most wanted films list. And piece by piece, The Rogue Song continues to come together. The complete audio soundtrack, one three-minute clip with Stan and Babe, the complete theatrical trailer, one reel of assorted scenes, and a half-reel of a ballet sequence have all been located. Another recent discovery indicates that two Laurel and Hardy scenes from The Rogue Song (the shaving scene and the bee-swallowing scene) were televised as recently as 1970.

nowill.jpgIn 1989, the unthinkable occurred: the second reel of a ‘new’ film did ‘pop up’ which included both Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy. It was the 1927 silent Charley Chase vehicle Now I’ll Tell One, making every known filmography of those famous 105 films now obsolete. One may also wish to add to this filmography the seven Spanish language films that were discovered in the back of an M-G-M vault in 1986: Ladrones, La Vida Nocturna, Tiembla y Titubea, Noche de Duendes, De Bote en Bote, Los Calaveras, and Politquerias, all of which feature Laurel and Hardy phonetically speaking their lines of dialogue in Spanish as well as many additional scenes edited from the American release prints.

waterrats.jpgMore? There’s the French language Les Carrotiers and Un Nuit Extravagnza, the German Spuk Um Mitternacht, extended sequences from Laughing Gravy and Pardon Us, restored footage from Pack Up Your Troubles and Babes In Toyland, newsreel footage of the boys, television appearances, radio performances, Erskine Johnson’s Hollywood Reel with Stan Laurel, Hollywood Handicap newsreel featuring Oliver Hardy, new film trailers, both color and black and white home movies, and the original Brats with the original music score and main titles – all of which have surfaced for public consumption within the last twenty years

So what about Hats Off? Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch. Bupkis. All we have are rumors and reports. Which brings us back to the claim from 2002 mentioned at the beginning of this article… This fellow claimed to be Elmer Guiol, nephew of Hal Roach director Fred L. Guiol. He stated that his uncle held many cans of unprocessed ‘movie copies to films made by the Hal Roach Studios.’ Among them were two versions of the opening spool of the film with the boys attempting to climb a staircase carrying a washing machine. He goes on to claim theat the picture quality is excellent due to the nature of the films spools, which were unprocessed until recently.

Elmer stated that he understood that this film was not available to the public at present and that, having access to these reels of film, he was currently in negotiation with various video companies with regard to its possible future release.

Incredible? Absolutely. Unbeleiveable? You tell me. But in case it is true, I wanted to report it first. If it’s another rib, I never really believed it any way. After all, Fred L. Guiol didn’t even direct Hats Off. But then why would old Elmer impersonate his nephew?

If Laurel and Hardy history teaches us anything, it is that nothing is too far-fetched not to be the truth. Or something like that. Perhaps the boys are orchestrating their newest playlet from their seats in heaven, the sequel to Leave ‘Em Laughing, entitled Keep ‘Em Guessing. Just bear this in mind the next time you poo-poo the idea of Hats Off being discovered: the Dead Sea Scrolls were hidden around 67 A.D. and not located until 1947! Okay, so maybe we won’t have Hats Off in my lifetime. But never say never!

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on June 09, 2017, 07:24 PM:

Nice article, Mike. Source?

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on June 11, 2017, 06:01 PM:

Hi Bill

Here's the reference

http://www.waxapple.org/articles/archives/80/

Another interesting article attached

Mike

http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/archive/articles/2011-04-ucla/ucla-1.html

Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on June 11, 2017, 07:29 PM:

Additionally-- the full pie fight from BATTLE was discovered a few year ago. I'm still waiting to see it.

BTW, what's up with www.waxapple.org? They haven't published a new article in 10 years but the sight is still up.
[Confused]

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on June 14, 2017, 04:26 PM:

I never give up - L&H; Magic Behind The movies, also mentioned a rumor of a fragment in 9.5 - Who knows - I'll never stop searching for this and other silent films I'm after - Shorty

Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on June 15, 2017, 08:44 PM:

Well that book came out in 1987, so the rumor is now at least 30 years old. If it hasn't been found yet in 9.5 I think it is a good bet that we can cross that gauge off the list of possibilities, unfortunately.

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on June 21, 2017, 10:14 AM:

in the meanwhile... [Smile]

Hats Off: A Reconstruction

ps: Dominique, it is strange how that french title translation means differently to me. How do you translate 'plus de chapeau'? I would say in English 'More Hats'. Maybe Décoller les chapeaux is closer to removing hats? Regardless, it is an idiom which has more of the meaning of saluting someone, or like saying, 'i take my hat off to you(or tip my hat)' is showing appreciation to someone for something they have done.

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on July 04, 2017, 10:38 AM:

I also believe that the celebrated but absent 'London after midnight', (though apparently overated) will eventually be unearthed, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a 9.5 clip to surface of 'Hats off', sold by someone for a pittance.
Despite rumours to the contrary, it hasn't been located apparently since 1930.
Perhaps I'm a glass half empty sort of bloke?

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 05, 2017, 05:13 PM:

Matthew, I'm very sorry for the late answer. I didn't see your message before. "Plus" has two meanings in French : more and...no more. In spoken French, most of the people will pronounce the s when plus means more while this letter is never pronounced when it means no more. Things are more confusing when it comes to written langue. I must admitt that the tittle sounds strange to me but maybe at that Time since wearing a hat was the norm, they used today forgotten expressions with the word chapeau ? 😀

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on July 07, 2017, 03:30 PM:

the search continues...Cheers all, Shorty

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on October 09, 2017, 01:56 PM:

Shorty - I regret to say it doesn't exist in 9.5...I know all of the films released on 9.5 in France and Hat's Off was not one of them in any form. If it was on 9.5 it would have been Japan as that seems to be the only country that we have incomplete info regarding what titles were released, but even that seems highly unlikely. I can tell you that Blackhawk had the rights to it back in the day (as they did for Slipping Wives) but NEVER found any usable elements for either title.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on March 29, 2018, 04:40 PM:

Thanks, Dino - I hope you might surprise us by coming to Wildwood next month, I'm bringing a Super 8 film called, aptly enough; THE STORY OF 9.5 - Nice 400' reel of information - I'll never give up the search for HATS OFF, in any form - Cheers, Shorty

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 29, 2018, 05:26 PM:

Joe, I believe the title is Lights Out And The Stars Appear.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on March 30, 2018, 06:27 AM:

"Lights Out - and the "Stars" appear" is a 400ft, and was distributed by PM Films, of Beaconsfield, Bucks.
It's the story of 9.5 home movies and is told by one of the original Goons, Michael Bentine.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on March 31, 2018, 04:47 PM:

Nice film though

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on May 12, 2018, 03:30 PM:

No progress to report regards the discovery of this lost title.
However, Shorty, Dino and a few others may be interested to know that I visited the Laurel and Hardy Museum in Ulverston,UK a couple of days ago and had a nice chat with the manager ( Mark ?) about the possible existence of a copy of Hats Off. He said no one had had any luck so far in tracking one down. BUT, as the custard pie scene in Battle of The Century has been re-discovered, he is very hopeful that a copy will surface eventually.
Regarding BOTS, he mentioned that at present there was a bit of a copyright wrangle going on with this rediscovered custard pie footage. Apparently, both the owner of the physical film and either the original film company, or video company ( if I have got my story right... and I would stand corrected) are claiming copyright which is still ongoing.

Does anyone else know about this,or can comment further?

.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on May 16, 2018, 12:52 PM:

Much obliged about the update, Melvin - Hope to be at Blackpool this year - After 90 years, one would figure to let everyone simply enjoy the short, yet it must be a tug between the owner and Hallmark or the current digital owner, as you say - Kind of silly, really, yet wait and see - Cheers, Shorty

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on July 27, 2018, 02:25 PM:

still searching...

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