8mm Forum: Send me a list! ---> not good on sale category

This is topic Send me a list! ---> not good on sale category in forum 8mm films for sale/trade/wanted at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 13, 2015, 02:24 PM:

i think we need the moderators/admin to jump in.

This sale category is provided for members to sale/trade the actual films not for distributing the list.

It is quite disturbing for me just recently a member (Robert Tucker) using this forum for distributing unseen list. Members are asked to contact him for the films he is selling. And apparently NOT ALL members who contacted him (as he requested) received it.

I am myself not interested with his list but am quite disturbed with the responses. Such posts can also attract unnecessary internet traffic (i.e bandwidth) that can be a burden cost to the owner of this forum (Brad Miller). We are here for free not paying anything...so please keep the cost down.

So can moderator to make the rule to avoid such posts, please.

My 2 cents though,

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on April 13, 2015, 02:27 PM:

I perfeclty agree with you, Winbert.

I avoided to ask the list by principle!

I'm also annoyed when someone put an announce, and when sold, remove completely the content!

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on April 13, 2015, 02:57 PM:

Interesting point. I'd like to hear how other Forum members feel on the subject.

Doug

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on April 13, 2015, 03:03 PM:

The only reason why i have resulted in this because of previous experiences on this forum which i have outlined in my film list post.

[ April 13, 2015, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Robert Tucker ]

Posted by David Skillern (Member # 607) on April 13, 2015, 03:16 PM:

Thanks Doug,

For your timely intervention - as for the fabled list - I had one dealing with Mr Tucker a few years ago and the print that he sold me was way below standard - I asked for help from this site and received it and eventually got my money back. This site is a helpful forum - where like minded individuals can discuss and banter at their leisure on the topic that really interests them - namely the world of film - whether it be Super 8, Standard 8, 9.5, 16 or 35mm.

Long may it continue.

David

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on April 13, 2015, 03:22 PM:

why post an add on the forum re large list of films on the forum then don't even bother to reply to emails it just causes problems why not just list the list of films you have for sale

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on April 13, 2015, 03:28 PM:

David, haven't received a request from you as yet so please email me again and i will reply.

If anyone else has not received a list or a reply please let me know.

Thanks for your support!

PS: turns out David already had the list which was kindly sent via a friend of his late last night.

[ April 13, 2015, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: Robert Tucker ]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on April 13, 2015, 05:30 PM:

I'd like to return to the subject of this thread. Without mentioning specific sellers, how do members feel about sales postings where you are asked if you would like to receive a list?

Doug

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on April 13, 2015, 05:38 PM:

in my opinion films should be advertised on the forum for sale or mentioned they are on ebay any one who is interested they can contact the seller by a pm or add to the listing

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 13, 2015, 05:39 PM:

Everything should always be transparent Doug. It is simply the only way by the forums very own rule book, which I hasten to add, is for very good reason, description and price.

Otherwise you end up in the situation of staggered selective selling lists.

When this happens, bad feeling creeps in. We then go down to 4398 members instead of 4399 (hopefully soon to be 4400!!) and the whole thing soon becomes unattractive and falls into disrepute.

That is my opinion. No doubt as ever, I will be slated on it, but as I see it, if you have nothing to hide then transparency works really well for both buyer as well as seller. For everything else that needs selling, there is always e bay!

It would be perfect if everyone selling on here can be treated as a trusted friend and therefore you know instantly that what you are purchasing are quality goods from one enthusiast to another. If everyone follows the same route as my last few purchases from trusted genuine sellers on here, even if it is does have to be from oversees, there are no issues whatsoever... Simples [Smile]

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on April 13, 2015, 06:44 PM:

Things are not always transparent which is part of the problem! Considering most of my posts get hijacked in one form or another when selling items. (prime example with the comments above) which are not really necessary David considering this was resolved ages ago and you was partly at fault.

I will make sure in future that anything i sell including my Star Wars. I will sell privately and to a select few only and not through this forum anymore. It's a shame as it gives people a chance to buy these rare titles off me directly which i would prefer. Instead of having to sell titles like i have done before in the past like Goldfinger, Close Encounters etc via eBay. A certain person who was once a moderator of this forum who has now started his own forum. Bought up my vast collection of Disney features and sold these on to fellow members of this forum all of which were bought as new fron Derann.

Of course there will always be a small minority of people that are either jealous of what you have achieved over the years or generally not happy with your prices. But it does not give them the right to persecute you every time you use this forum?

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on April 13, 2015, 07:04 PM:

I don't see a problem with lists by pm or email if you have something for sale....especially when you list films and prices and get never ending complaints about how high your prices are, and "I wouldn't pay that much....you can find it cheaper here....one just sold for less....I understand why you would not want to post the films on the forum.

Bill

Posted by Clay Smith (Member # 4122) on April 13, 2015, 07:39 PM:

As for myself, I don't have a problem with PM a list. If you want one just PM, if not then don't. I don't see where it causes that much of a problem. That's just my opinion.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on April 13, 2015, 09:11 PM:

Well..to get back on topic! [Smile]

I do understand sellers not wanting to list their film prices here if they keep getting asked "Why is that so high?" "I purchased that in 1982 for half that!" Yup. I have gotten that as well when I was selling a film a while back.
That having been said, I prefer it when a list is posted with prices. It could be that I'm just too lazy to send a private email but it worked well for Steven S. when he sold his huge lot of great features on here.
What should be courtesy is to only post on a sale topic if you have a question about the print or its quality but not the price.
I mean we all have thought in our heads.."What? That person wants $$$ for that 3 Part digest?" But yet..crazy enough..maybe thats the persons favorite film and they LOVE It and to them...yes! Its worth $$$!
I always think its nice to offer a film/equipment sale up here first. You bypass Ebay fees, more money for you, and it builds camaraderie. And if by chance you get a bad print which was misrepresented...just never deal with that seller again.
Thankfully for me...I have been very lucky as most of you are honest sellers! [Smile]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on April 13, 2015, 09:40 PM:

I have no problem with anyone inviting requests for a list. There have even been times when someone (remember Mr Mussa?) has offered such vast numbers of films that I'm not even sure if would be technically possible to have a post here that's long enough! There have been occasions when I've seen a post offering films turn into a 'debate' about prices, etc, and I can imagine that this would be frustrating for sellers.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 13, 2015, 09:50 PM:

As I am the starter of this topic, I should bring back this to the ultimate aim that I was wishing for.

First, I don't want to visit a RE/MAX website (selling/renting properties) to find an add saying "email me for a list of house for sale"

Since this is 8mmforum and specifically on the sale category for films, I supposed to see films list.

The list is beneficial for members to know what other titles are available on 8mm. This already happened in many posts that from this sub-category we found many info about releases, e.g from Francisco's films sale I knew now that Jörg Harnischmacher also released several Disney titles.

The films list (with price) also can be helpful for other members to measure what is the current market price.

Second, however, it is also my view that it is not proper for other members to criticize the price put by individual seller (another members), since this is totally the seller's prerogative unless from company/commercial stores because this kind of store follow the commercial/trade rules stated by the government.

cheers,

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 13, 2015, 11:31 PM:

Alan made a good suggestion : public list but no public comment or debate about the prices.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on April 14, 2015, 02:32 AM:

Totally agree with Alan and Dom. Show a list of titles together with prices otherwise it can cause resentment as already shown on this topic and can result in damaging the sellers reputation unnecessarily. There will always be nitpickers on price, but that's the way of the world.

Posted by Ron Douglas (Member # 2990) on April 14, 2015, 06:38 AM:

Ever since the business began, printed lists with prices were what drove sales. I love sales lists, old and new!
Just look at how often the (still online) 2007 Derann sales list is used!
Doug, you are pretty clear that all sellers offering lists should also put prices with the items.
May I suggest that anyone disputing a member's price should do that via PM to the seller, as the seller is entitled to ask what they want.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on April 14, 2015, 09:08 AM:

I have a deleted a number of posts that were way off topic and turned into a squabble.

I am loathe to add rules (aren't there enough?) however it appears that in order to diminish hijacking of threads and discourteous replies I might need to.

I am in favor of eliminating criticism of prices. If the seller's price is too high the item will not sell, leading the seller to lower the price. If a member is interested in purchasing that item but only at a lower price, that member can always contact the seller off Forum.

For now, posts that include list requests are still allowed. Hopefully, if future sales threads remain on topic and stay civil, sellers will not feel the need to go that route.

Doug

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on April 14, 2015, 09:14 AM:

I have no problem with a privately sent list, although I would prefer to see it here with prices. What I do have a problem with is making someone's for sale item a topic of discussion, with critiques, personal feelings and descriptions, etc....

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on April 14, 2015, 10:53 AM:

There is a section of the 8mm Forum "Films For Sale/Trade/Wanted" (sic) - I feel anyone can list anything for whatever their fancy, but it is then up to the individuals to PM the seller and discuss business - No one has to read the dirty public laundry (if any) - Should any severe difficulties arise, then we might enact a quorum - So Stupid Shorty types away again

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on April 14, 2015, 01:57 PM:

I'd say if a buyer finds a price too steep they should PM with their reasonable offer, if nobody else is willing to fork over full price then they can negotiate.

I'm not sure why, but I think the sales section is either the most squabbly of the forum sections or a close second to General Yak.

The general forums are more civil (...generally), and "reviews" is downright genial!

Somewhere on the 'net there must be a Forum dedicated solely to bickering.

-you say something nice: that's your first warning!

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 14, 2015, 02:17 PM:

I would only add that if the reason for not posting a list is because a person feels that they're prices might be a little too high, or the person might get any negative feedback, well, that's just a part of being a member of a forum. Potentially lower the prices just a tad bit to accommodate the demand, or whatever the demands of fellow collectors might be, if possible, accommodate those demands. The person would probably find that they will sell more films upon doing so.

That's not saying the person should let they're beloved prints go for pennies, but it does just slightly ruffle the "collective feathers" to only put up a request for a list and not post the films on the actual forum, as this very series of posts on this topic, illustrates.

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on April 14, 2015, 02:59 PM:

Well I'm sorry to say there appears to be one culprit who just enjoys sabotaging, sales list period. From the number of posts and the number of forum members complaining to me about how dire the situation is (i can count on both hands how many). I only think the best way going forward is that something should be done about it.

Doug as you well know I've had countless problems on this forum recently with various comments and digs. Why does someone have the right to effect your sales with continuing comments. And then say if you're truly reliable and trustworthy person as you say you are. You are OK to post on this forum. I'm sorry but it's now getting to a point where they are taking the rules and law in to their own hands and it is getting to a point that people are not liking this forum period. It's now becoming more then just a joke at my expense and everyone else who is genuine.

Do take the time to read my previous posts which have been hijacked in one way or another by just one person.

It's also one of the reasons why i am not involved in the BFCC anymore as i don't have time for wingers!

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on April 14, 2015, 03:47 PM:

Interesting list of films Robert, what I find odd though is the cost of a second hand 35mm film in comparison to the 8mm film. It makes the 35mm better value because of there inherent picture quality (bigger frame ) and the fact that they are complete features. there was a copy of 101 dalmations on Ebay a week a go and that went for less than the super 8 version would sell for. Its not really something you can show at home, but these seem to me better value, pound for pound. Keep them coming Robert.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on April 14, 2015, 04:58 PM:

Hello all.

Paul - regarding screening 35mm films at home - it really is possible and very affordable film stock wise if you buy a (semi) portable (they're heavy beasts) 35mm projector such as a Spectra - mine has 5000ft capacity and is only slightly bigger than my 16mm Eiki 4000p.

Back on topic - I personally have no problem whether a seller wishes to simply say 'email me for a list' or list their films direct for sale - the films are their property and the preferred method of listing should be up to the seller.

Prices should always be listed though and not commented on in the actual 'for sale' thread for the sake of good manners.

Kevin

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 14, 2015, 06:07 PM:

Doug, if we are allowd to do "send me alist/catalog" then the other way around in 8mm forum, somebody may say "send me a PM how to fix a GS1200"

In General Yak, a member will say "I have a funny accident, send me an email to know it"

In equipment wanted category, I will write "I am looking for an 8mm equipment, send me a PM to know what I am looking for".... [Big Grin]

This forum is supposed to share the information, not such things...

One big thing I just found ...apparently as per the forum rules say, I quote:

quote:
RULE #10: Rules regarding the Equipment Wanted/For Sale category.:

UNACCEPTABLE:

If you are just advertising your normal line of goods, this is not the place for you. Go away.
If you are discontinuing something from your normal line of goods, posting a note here stating "we are almost sold out" will be deleted.
If your post says something such as "contact us for a catalog", just turn around right now.

So I guess we have to follow the forum rules. It is your decision now, Doug.

Cheers,

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 15, 2015, 12:31 PM:

Well stated Winbert ... best source is the actual rules, which we can all sometimes tend to forget. [Smile]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on April 15, 2015, 02:30 PM:

Well, if we are going to have very strict adherence to the rules, it's perhaps valid to point out that the title and text of RULE #10 entirely refers to the Equipment Wanted/For Sale category and there's no reference whatsoever to film sales! It's also debatable whether a sales list - at least in the UK - means exactly the same thing as a catalog.

I don't entirely understand Winbert's point of view with regard to why this is such a big issue. Robert has indicated why he doesn't want to post the list on the forum and clearly a good proportion of the membership consider his reasons understandable. So what's to be gained by forcing him to not offer a list and depriving members from having the chance to see it? I would have thought the main priority is to end the 'hijacking' and critical debate regarding prices; if that's achieved, then everyone will be happy to list their films here.

Considering Winbert said "I am myself not interested with his list", it seems a bit extreme to find the offer of it "disturbing" when it's easy to simply ignore it!

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on April 15, 2015, 02:46 PM:

Winbert,

A little clarification is needed here. The rule you quoted was put in place for the equipment sale sections of the Film-Tech Cinema Systems professional sites. I asked Brad Miller about this and he explained that rule #10 was specifically intended to discourage the huge Theater Supply peddlers, not a single film collector selling prints.

So yes, it is my decision. Film lists are allowed.

Doug

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on April 15, 2015, 06:18 PM:

Three posts deleted.

If one is upset about threads being hijacked, try not engage in the same behavior.

Doug

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 15, 2015, 08:39 PM:

OK then Doug fair enough you are the moderator here,

Adrian, just to clarify why I was disturbed, while I was not interested with the list has been explained on my earlier post.

It was supposed this forum is to share information. My view is posts such as "where is the list?", "I have not received it", "send me a list" is not information that is informative.

In fact another forum that we all know has now stated a new rule whoever use to post only for selling his/her films then he/she was asked to use ebay and will no longer be able to post.

Another thing which I raised too is about the internet traffic. The more uninformative posts such as "where is the list?", "I have not received it", "send me a list" is a burden cost to the owner of the forum. However since Brad Miller has no objection for this matter, so I don't see any more problem here.

We cannot say "just ignore if you don't like the post", because the more uninformative information in the forum is the harder we found specific topics we are looking for using google or the forum search engine. Again this is about the internet traffic since server is flooded with so many texts that must be sorted out. (ps: Have you found it is disturbing now when searching on google with keywords "super 8" or "8mm" you are flooded with the information about "Super 8" a film of Steven Spielberg and "8mm" a film of Nicolas Cage? that such the thing)

I share the view that hijacking post and criticizing the prices are not a good manner

cheers,

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