8mm Forum: STAGECOACH (super 8 optical sound)

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 09, 2005, 12:40 PM:

From what some may guess, I will be doing a continued series of Optical sound feature release reviews. This time, it's :

STAGECOACH!!

This is the 1939 version, which propelled John Wayne to super Stardom. Wayne had already been a featured player in films since "The Big Trail" (1930, one of the first widescreen films, called "Fox Grandeur"), and countless low budget westerns, but this was his break, playing the "Ringo Kid". This was an excellent cast to be sure! Donald Crisp as the nervous passenger going home to his wife, John Carradine, who plays the gambler, and would later become famous as a horror film star, (also played Aaron, Moses brother, in the 50's version of the "Ten Commandments"), and the great Thomas Mitchell, who won an oscar for playing the Doctor/drunk who redeems himself, as well as Claire Trevor, playing the prostitute with a heart of gold, (Don't prostitutes always have a heart of gold in these movies?) Lastly, lets not forget the excellent Andy devine, who would play countless sidekick roles in Westerns, with that characteristic drawl of his!

All these great folks are on a stagecoach trip, "Larisburg", Wayne is headed there to avenge the death of his brother, others have thier reasons for travelling. Along the way, one of the lady passengers has her baby and then, in what is stilled considered one of the greatest stunt action scenes, the chase of the Stagecoach by the Apache indians!

John Ford, who was already a well known director, took a chance on this "B" film star Wayne, who was already thinking his career was going downhill, and the rest is history, as Ford and Wayne would end up making a great slew of westerns together which mark some of the greatest ever made.

Then there is the inevitable showdown between Wayne and his nemesis, which was excellently staged.

This was the real beginning, (as far as Hollywood was concerned) of the adult western, and would shape the makings of Westerns up to this day, centering around the redemption of fallen people and the doing that which is the "right thing to do," or, as some would say, "well, that's just the law of the west."

This has been put out in both magnetic sound and optical sound, this review deals with the optical sound version.

The sharpness is slightly under the average excellent level, but that could be because of the age of the print. Strangely, the musical score starts about 30 seconds before any image appears on screen, with the beginning title "Masterworks". This must be a slightly restored version as I've heard that the great first shot of Wayne, (from the stagecoach's point of view) pulling up and stopping in front of him, was missing from most prints for years, I would be curious to see if this shot, as well as some others, are in both prints.

This optical print is also in SEPIATONE, a lovely brownish color thru-out, which you can't even get on DVD or laserdisc, which certianly makes it collectible. The sound is pretty good for a optical mono. I don't know how many other classic were put out on optical sound, I've never seen any others, (as of yet)
Perhaps the reason for the SEPIATONE (despite the potential that the original print was such), is because they only use color film, it appears for optical sound films. Broadway Danny Rose (a Woody Allen film, also an optical, and a future review), is also SEPIATONE.

The only slight drawback to this film is that is some of the night scenes, the contrast doesn't offer as much, and so the some night scenes aren't as well lit as they should be. Small setback, however!

I have seen an optical sound print of this at, I believe, Fosters films or Classical Home Cinema.

I'll see ya at the Movies!!

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 09, 2005, 04:20 PM:

Sure that sepia's not down to fade? [Frown]

Kev.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 09, 2005, 09:48 PM:

I'm not sure of the question. If it's whether the print has developed a brownish "Kodak" SP fade, I'd doubt it, as I had a copy way back in 1988, and the sepiatone was the same, and Kodak SP was still a fairly new newcomer to the film stocks at that time, and wouldn't have faded as of yet. Note that Broadway Danny Rose is also a sepiatne title, with the same brownish color, but it's not the brownish that you get from a faded kodak SP print.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 10, 2005, 06:01 AM:

Yep that was what I meant. Obviously if it was like that all those years a go then it was intentional.

Kev.

Posted by Colin Robert Hunt (Member # 433) on August 10, 2005, 03:05 PM:

Many thanks for the review. Just like to add I have the Walton 4x400ft version that I bought way back in the mid 70's. Walton cut the the beginning sequence out along with very slight cuts throughout the film to bring the running time down to 72 mins. This version still despite the cuts because it contains all the key elements of the film and the print and sound quality still stands up by todays standard.I have kept this in my collection after all these years. It's one of waltons better copies.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 10, 2005, 06:10 PM:

I had heard the walton one was just 4 reels. My optical copy is a full 5x400 reels, so unless the Walton release are extremely full reels, there is a potential 15 or so minutes missing.

Yet, as you said, with a little "filler" out, it's still an excellent film to watch. I'm betting it has probably all of the last two reels of the original feature, as those contain the Apache attack on the stagecoach and, of course, the final showdown.

More trivia, the solgier who talks to the driver of the coach at the last safe stop is none other than Tim Holt, who would later go on to great stardom, most famously as "Curtian" (That's probably not spelled right) in The Treasure of the Sierra Madre".

I thought I'd add to this post and say that the original running time was 96 minutes, so your missing about what i had originally said above.

I do believe that there was a magnetic sound 5x400 edition of this as well out there. Could someone clarify that for me?

[ August 10, 2005, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Osi Osgood ]

Posted by Colin Robert Hunt (Member # 433) on August 11, 2005, 05:13 AM:

Hi Ossi
I beleave I have seen the 5x400ft magnetic sound version on the secondhand list in the past, but not sure who released it.
The film works for me for the actors like the great Donald Meek in Stagecoach he played the part to perfection. Also Thomas Mitchell anouther great actor and his drunken doctor role in the film was flawles. The whole film production is a classic and for me is one of John Ford's best films.

Posted by Dave Cragg (Member # 401) on August 11, 2005, 05:29 AM:

Hi all,
what I don't understand is if a full feature can fit onto 5 400ft reels, why edit it and release it on 4 400ft?
I've noticed that a number of films have been released as 4 x 400ft features, when an extra reel, and perhaps a few more feet on the other 4 would have covered the entire original feature.
What's the point?

Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on August 11, 2005, 06:20 AM:

I sold a magnetic sound 5x400 copy here a couple of years back.

Posted by Colin Robert Hunt (Member # 433) on August 11, 2005, 07:06 AM:

Dave to answer to the question why realease cut versions is.
A. Walton on the early release and I'm talking about the 60's released films on Standard 8 only. Then the new Super8 format in 1965 saw releases in that gauge as well.
B. Walton made their features 4X 400ft (8reels) running 72 min with the exception of The Lady in grey 10 reels (5X400)a longer film but still cut. I think that fim releases on 8mm dictated a percentage of cuts (Derann releases as well) and maybe the cost to customer. Early sound films were quite expensive. Later Walton releases were longer and did not always have Walton logo beginning and end and had the original titles. Most of the 4X400's worked well variable quality but the thrill of running these films at home and in sound before Videos and DVD's were part of that experience and the cuts accepted.
Hope that explain something.

Posted by Seppo Tollikko (Member # 151) on August 11, 2005, 01:09 PM:

Maybe this is a bit of information:

I have Stagecoach with mag sound in 5x400ft packed in Walton
cardboard boxes.

I can not date the release, got it in a lot few years ago.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 11, 2005, 01:30 PM:

Walton was well known for cutting down thier releases. For instance, anytime you buy a Tom and Jerry cartoon released by Walton, there's at least 15 to thirty seconds well edited out. This, quite frankly, means that less film stock is used, less cost to Walton, which is why if you want the original uncut Tom and Jerrys, you buy the MGM releases of them, which you can still find, from time to time on ebay or private sellers. I remember how pissed I was when I recieved a copy of "Johann Mouse", and found a whole gag sequence cut, it's like, "What the Heck!!"

If you can, definitely get the 5x400 version of Stagecaoch, because, in a film like this, the dialogue scenes are truly important to the impact of the film. There were lots of action filled westerns before Stagecoach, some of them quite good, but what made Stagecoach a classic was a development of the characters and the relationships that clash and develop between the characters!

Posted by Eberhard Nuffer (Member # 410) on August 12, 2005, 11:45 AM:

It seems that full-length versions of "Stagecoach" were also released in the States by Ivy Films and Hollywood Film Exchange.

Eberhard

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 12, 2005, 09:13 PM:

With so many different film suppliers releasing this specific film, I wonder if the copyright ran out at some point?

That's not a joke! It does happen! That's why the film,"It's a Wonderful life" ended up on super 8! The copyriht ended on it and people were able to release it in any number of formats, (cheap VHS ect.) and super 8 was one of those formats.

Gee, lets hope the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy looses it's copyright. Yeah, i know, it'll be a cold day in hell before that happens!

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