8mm Forum: Coal Black and De Sebben Dwarves! Warners/Derann

This is topic Coal Black and De Sebben Dwarves! Warners/Derann in forum 8mm Print Reviews at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000282

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 01, 2008, 04:14 PM:

Okay, there are great cartoons and then there are true classic cartoons.

There is almost no other cartoon that divides critics as miuch as this film. It's racist, it's funny and a brilliant reminder of the time in which it was made.

Critics hate it because of it's racist overtones, and they are correct. However, when one views cartoons from this era, one must remember that these were not done to make fun of Black people, but were simply a style or niche of film at the time. (note the assorted black themed films of the time, whether made by white or black people, or, for instance, look at the "black exploitation films made by black people during the 70's, like "Blacula" or "Coffy") Chuck Jones, when asked about this, has stated that it was just the way things were at the time, and not racially motivated in any way.

In fact, Bob Clampett (the director) was a rabid Jazz lover and loved the fact that many of the great Jazz performers were at his fingertips, and this was a perfect chance to use them. In fact, Bob Clampett used a number of Black performers in the cartoon. "Queenie" and "Coal Black" were voiced by sisters Ruby and Dee Dandridge!

Originally, this was slated to be a two reel cartoon; the only extra length cartoon the studio would make, but ended up being released as a very tight one reeler.

The Story ...

A Mammy character relates by firelight, to her "honey chile" the story of Snow White, except this is an all black cast, so she is Coal Black. Queenie, the evil queen, (who hoards many a war world two luxury, such as white sidewall tires!), asks for a "Pwince Chawmin" (who has sparkling dice for front teeth!).

But Pwince Chawmin has his eyes on the luscious eyefull Coal Black, who does the wash, (all the while hip hopping as she washes, in a delightfully sexy animation!) and the Pwince and Coal do a great dance scene ...

... so the jealous queenie orders for Coal Black to be "rubbed out".

They run off with Coal Black, but she is rescued by the Sebben Dwarves, who are "In the Army Now." Coal black now washes and cooks for the troops. She is finally taken out by queenie.

In "gallops" the Pwince, you, with many an attempt, tries to awaken Coal Black, (once again, the agony of the Pwinces Kisses are animated to perfection). The Pwinces kisses are so aggressive, that they drain him of his youth, making him an old man. Out of nowhere, the "dopey" version of the Sebben Dwarves, (a character of another Black Performer Stephin Fechit), wakes up Coal Black with him magnificent kiss!

Note: This was perhaps the only "Classic Era" Warners cartoon that didn't have the standard "That's all Folks" ending. These words were superimposed over the Mammy rocking
her Honey Chile for the ending.

The whole cartoon is in hip hopping Rhyme, and is a wonder to behold! This cartoon was almost completely unseen for years, as it had been deleted from TV ever since 1968, and only existed in personal collections on 16 or 35MM. The very copy of this I downloaded off of the internet, was far from pristine.

But now ... onto this print!

Okay, we are used to Derann's great Disney releases, and they are great, but I was quite impressed with this print!

Sharpness ...

This print is the sharpest Warners print I have ever seen on Super 8, and certianly rivals any super 8mm Warners print from the past, hands down, magnificent! It's as good as any 16MM print I have seen.

COLOR

While I was impressed with the sharpness, the color really outdoes the sharpness! No doubt, this was taken from a technicolor master, (35MM? It appears so), the color is rich without a hint of fade whatsoever. This particular print is on Agfa 1S. I have always personally stated that Agfa color is better for color reproduction than Eastman L.P.P. Don't get me wrong, Eastman is quite good, but Agfa surpasses it, and this print is well serviced by Agfa.

Contrast

Contrast is VERY good, period.

Sound

Sound is, of course, MONO, as it was originally released and is the standard booming Derann recording.

I tell you, this is a cartoon that no serious collector of cartoons should be without. Though it does have racist overtones to it, it should not keep you from enjoying this magnificent cartoon!

" Certainly one of the greatest Warner Bros. cartoons ever made. "

(quote from the book "The complete guide to Warner Bros. Cartoons")

Long Live Super 8mm!

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on March 01, 2008, 10:31 PM:

I totally agree. I have this also.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 02, 2008, 07:39 AM:

A great cartoon and a classic.But sorry, but for me it aint racist, i get well sick and tired of hearing the word racist, the audience of which it is intended,(children) only think of it as a funny cartoon, when i put this one on at a xmas show a couple of years back not one person said anything bad of it,in fact it well down very well and the kids were making full blown belly laughs, its like weirdo's who like to point out in this country that thomas the tank engine was bad showing the trains going into tunnels at this was considered to be a fallack sybol etc etc.

This film was made in 1943 at the height of WW2 when im sure not many Americans were too keen on the Japenese,(hence the Jap joke in the film) and yes, it certainly does parady the coloured society, its a cartoon, its fun,& not in any way nasty or offensive.

Does this mean whoever we make a joke from is a form of racism one way or another? When will people learn to JOKE and have a bit of FUN, sometimes at the expense of others be they white, yellow or coloured abled or disabled. Personaly I find modern movies full of full blown sex and filthy laugauge much more offensive especially as time goes on the films are pushing the limits further.

A great review from Osi of a great cartoon but forget the PC bollocks. [Wink]

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on March 02, 2008, 08:32 AM:

Osi

Thanks for this wonderful review! This is a very funny cartoon. To those interested, double it up with Warner's CLEAN PASTURES another great racist cartoon and you've got two great shows on one short reel! I have them both......Clean Pastures is always shown first. And yep, I've got both of them spliced on to the front of my SNOW WHITE feature. LOL ain't life grand!!!!!

CG

Posted by Mal Brake (Member # 14) on March 02, 2008, 01:07 PM:

Looks like I'm going to be in the minority on this one.
Nothing to do with racism or being offensive, it's just that I don't find it funny (apart from the Japs are free gag
As has been stated it's part of the American culture and views at that time and, just my personal opinion, has nothing in common with the British way of life. So I understand why it is funny for the US audience it was aimed at but cannot see why we Brits would find this particular cartoon funny. By the way I love lots of Warner Brothers cartoons, I prefer them to many of the over-cute Disney one reelers.
Mal

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 02, 2008, 01:23 PM:

I heartfeltly agree Tom, the "PC" was not intentional, just pointing out the difference between today and then.

It's a shame that we have come to such a point in our society, that we can't seem to laugh at each other.

This was done at the height of Bob Clampett's creative energy, (his other great classic that I can't get enough of? "Gruesome Twosome"!)

John K, (creator of "Ren and Stimpy" has touted Bob Clampett's cartoons as his main creative influence, (notice the similarity between the "Gruesome Twosome" cats and "Stimpy").

I'm always amazed as to just how perfectly timed Bob Clampett's cartoons are. They can be nice and calm and then, out of nowhere, BANG!! magnificent action! This cartoon is no exception. It's such a shame that he left Warners in 1946. One wonders where his cartoons could have went, no doubt, even further, but hey, he gave us "Beany and Cecil".

The best part of all of this, is that we can own this classic, among so many others, in our private collections, and with such stunning quality. It was no exaggeration when I said that this print rival's the 16MM's I have seen. I would love to find out if it was a 35MM master, dropped down to a 16MM master negative.
The color is truly striking. When capturing the colors used for the black faces, for instance, they either tend to be jet black or almost the right lightness, but then the rest of the image is overly bright, (as in the case of my print of "All this and Rabbit Stew", another Bob Clampett cartoon, Niles print ... well, that says it all!).

All the colors are so rich that it really makes me look at many other cartoons in my collection having good unfaded color, but not having the rich saturation of this print, as being pale in comparison.

Kudo's to Derann on this film, (as well with literally all thier releases), you really can trust Derann to deliver the best of quality each and every time.

You Hear that Derann, where's me freebie?! (hee hee)

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 02, 2008, 06:23 PM:

Judge for yourselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20nZCrHlwHA

I used to have this on my "to get" list because of the forbidden fruit factor. Once I actually saw it I decided that whatever the politics I really didn't find it that funny.

I get more laughs out of most Bugs Bunnies.

HOWEVER: it's part of the fun of super-8 that we can get otherwise censored material like this .

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 03, 2008, 07:26 AM:

Osi,

Certainly not meaning you were being PC, your review was excellent, i just think its such a pity when things like this are banned ect because some scilly human rights activist or the politicaly correct brigade point out someting that most people dont even think of, it certainly is classic Bob Clampett at his best. Wish they would make more like it today, all they have to do is ensure the gags fly both ways not just one to give an even balance. [Wink]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 03, 2008, 10:05 AM:

I fully understand Tom!

One of yout statements in the last post makes me think ..

If the stupid "PC's" are the only ones to really recognize this stuff as racist today, and everybody else doesn't really see it, who's the real racist, the ones who couldn't give a rip, or the ones who zealously pursue the "PC" thing?

Hmmmm.

Anynow, NOW I have a slobbering desire to watch it again.

Clickety clack goes the projector ...

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 03, 2008, 11:51 AM:

Welllll,

There's a certain level of political correctness where for example somebody of some ethnic group or other is shown working behind a counter in a fast food restaurant and immediately people will be picketing the theaters claiming that they are being stereotyped for being qualified to do nothing more. Even though that was never the intention of the people that made the film, the ever watchful eyes are out there looking for an excuse to open their ever large mouths. As a result, the ever thickening fog of unacceptable material makes creative people ever more reluctant to take chances with things like comedy. (-or just find a safe group to pick on as an alternative...)

This one is way, way beyond that level of oversensitivity. I kind of look at like this: if it really was meant to make fun of black people how could they have made it particularly worse?

It goes back to another film in the Derann catalog "Rockets Roar" which basically talks about how prepared we were to "defend freedom" by nuking each other. Both films are excellent as historical resources because they are a window back of the mindset of the times. Both are interesting and both make me a little queasy. (PS: I reviewed "Roar" elsewhere here)

Let's face it: "Coal Black" was such mainstream thought back then that much of the voice talent behind it actually were black people. Perhaps it's true that the artists never really meant it to offend anybody, maybe it's a shame that at the time it really didn't.

-kind of wonder what we think is good entertainment these days that will have people squirming in their seats in 50 years.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 03, 2008, 12:06 PM:

All good points, but if we take it a step further, what does everyone think of one of the all time comedy great blazzing saddles? I think its brilliant and for those who say its racist i say, look again, yes it uses the N word many times but it is the majority white people who are made to look scilly,

In the end people need to just take it with a pinch of salt, it seems to me that the minority now have more rights than the majority, if anyone makes a movie with all whites its deemed racist so consiquiently we now have the "token" coloured person, south park springs to mind, ive never heard anyone complaining about that cartoon yet, we do live in strange world dont we? [Wink]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 03, 2008, 12:23 PM:

Never seen "Saddles", can't say one way or the other. (Was too young when it came out) I do like Mel Brooks' other stuff, by and large. I think "Young Frankenstein" could be a perfect super-8 feature.

-actually "Coal Black" would be daring (still not admirable) to make today, but at the time it was made Black People were one of the safe groups I was talking about. They wouldn't be picketing the theaters: it wasn't safe in many places.

There's kind of a flip side to the whole issue of people producing offensive material and getting a reaction. More and more It feels like entertainers are seeking buttons to push and using the protests as hype to put butts in the seats. I'm not too nuts about either this or PC.

Can you imagine the reaction this one would get if it was about anybody but the Amish?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsfVw9xxoNY

..and yes I think it is funny......and brilliant.

I guess they are safe to pick on too!

Posted by Antoine Orsero (Member # 41) on March 03, 2008, 03:11 PM:

I have super8 cartoons deemed racist: BOSCO AND THE PIRATES, BOSCO AND THE CANNIBALES, PEASTURE CLEAN, THE OLD HOUSE.

These films are wonderful and there is in the first 3 quoted films caricatures of famous black jazz!

The dvd of Tex Avery and Tom & Jerry sold in the US were all censored in the sequences representing blacks!

It is a pity!
[Frown]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 03, 2008, 07:47 PM:

REALLY?!

I know were getting slightly off the topic here, (probably better suited to "General Yak" now), but I didn't know that they censored the TEX Avery and Tom and Jerry Cartoons. They didn't do that on the BOXED laserdisc set of all the Tex Avery cartoons!

Once again, Super 8 wins out! many of the Tom and Jerry's have the original "Mammy" character, as well as many of the Tex Avery films, unedited on Super 8!

Posted by Antoine Orsero (Member # 41) on March 04, 2008, 06:32 AM:

Yes Osi!
I bought these dvd!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 04, 2008, 07:35 AM:

I think to sum up, coal Black is excellent as long as people just take it for what it is, a cartoon and a funny one at that, im sure the media at large (who install the racist nonsense into our minds from cartoons)will always find something to pick on from every cartoon made,
Have top say, a lot of the PC stupidity comes from over the pond, we just seem to follow everything that goes on over in the US of A. Ive always said, if you want to see what the UK will be like in 10 years look at the US today, but what great holiday parks you have [Big Grin]

(Only jokin chaps)

[ September 08, 2018, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: Tom Photiou ]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 04, 2008, 02:39 PM:

BLOODY HELL!!

I don't want the U.K. to be like America! Britian is a cool place that has it's own character!

Besides, the British had the common sense to keep Super 8 alive.

Now, how could you possibly fault the British for that?

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 05, 2008, 07:32 AM:

[Roll Eyes]

Good point, [Wink]

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2