This is topic The Music Box, Laurel and Hardy, 1932 in forum 8mm Print Reviews at 8mm Forum.


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Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 16, 2008, 04:14 PM:
 

“Why don’t you WALK around?”

The Music Box, Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy, 1932 (2x400’, Black and White, Blackhawk Films)

Here it is: the ultimate Laurel and Hardy! It’s the one that people think about when they hear “Laurel and Hardy” and it earned them their only Best Picture Academy Award. Strange too: it was made as kind of an afterthought to sneak another film in that year’s budget and was basically a remake of their now lost silent film “Hat’s Off”. However, it is a true classic. Even people who are dimly conscious of the world before TV remember “ ’Dat one ‘bout ‘dose guys pushin’ the piana’ up ‘duh steps. You know ‘dem: ‘duh guys widd ‘duh hats? Yeah!, Moe and Costello!”

The story is simple enough to be a video game, from a time when that phrase would have been gibberish. The humor is not subtle: this is piano sliding down stairs and out a window. It is people kicking each other in the butts and getting hit in the head. The acting is often over the top: Professor Theodore Von Schwarzenhoffen (M.D., A.D, D.D.S, F.L.D, F.F.F. und F. ) bellows like a hurricane. The special effects are a dummy being dragged down a staircase by a runaway piano crate. In short, if you are looking for Orson Welles, you’re sitting in the wrong theater.

What we have instead is a great little story of two ordinary guys fighting extraordinary obstacles: a heavy crate, a big staircase, the force of gravity, a nursemaid with a grating laugh, a brutal cop, a big loudmouth, a clever horse and worst of all their own idiocy. Anybody who has ever really screwed up a task because they just didn’t think the matter through before starting can relate to this one, and that includes basically all of us sooner or later.

So we find ourselves there on that bright day in Los Angeles, and Stan and Ollie arrive with Susie their horse and the player piano for delivery to 1127 Walnut Avenue in their wagon. They are looking the way we like Laurel and Hardy to look: young, healthy, perhaps foolishly optimistic. In what may be the biggest understatement in the history of the movies, Postman Hall tells them the house is “right on top of the stoop”. The “stoop” is of course that famous concrete staircase of 131 steps. I won’t really get into the story; if you haven’t seen it yet you should experience it for yourself! Suffice it to say what goes up must come down: again and again and again. Even after they get it to and into the house they still find ways of making the job a spectacular mess. No sane insurance company would ever sell a policy to these guys.

-yet they never quit!

Stan is just well…Stan. He’s not very bright and keeps messing things up. The joke is on Ollie though because despite whatever he thinks of Stan he’s easily just as big a fool. Ollie keeps unleashing his wrath on Stan, but it keeps coming back on him again and again. Ollie’s only real comfort is the audience. Every time the Universe pays him back he turns to the camera and silently looks to us for sympathy.

I’m not sure if I’ve made it clear yet, but I love this movie! Seeing it as many times as I have it has reached kind of a false perfection from familiarity. Everything works together and if I ever saw a different version of it, it would be like a favorite song with a new verse…just not right!

My print is one of the Blackhawk Laurel and Hardies. Normally I don’t like the idea of reviewing a movie this long out of print, but these are very commonly available used.

Mine did not arrive on 2x400’ in the original Blackhawk packaging but instead put together on this ponderous 800’ steel reel in a black metal can inside one of those old khaki canvas covered boxes with fabric straps and chromed buckles. (It looks like something a director should be carrying across the studio lot on his way to the Big Screening!)

Reel one is wonderfully sharp. Reel two is a little soft but probably more noticeable because mine are spliced together and therefore easier to compare. The sound is variable, as if they were having trouble getting a good level on the wide outdoors shots. Exterior close ups and interiors are fine. It gives you a couple of seconds of that classic Vitaphone 60 Hz. hum here and there which at this late date is strangely comforting. When you cut it some slack by remembering this one is pushing 80 years old, it’s actually really good!

-Heaven forbid we should ever watch it digitized, stereofied, pasteurized, homogenized and colorized!


 

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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 16, 2008, 07:43 PM:
 
Hi Steve, funny you should post this review today - I was just watching my S8 print last night! Yes, this is one of my favourite film of the Boys. My particular Blackhawk print is sharp but a little washed out on reel 1, then good contrast but softer on reel 2. I too notice the 60hz hum coming in and out, until you pointed it out I did'nt realize this was sound on disc.
My all time favourite L&H IS 'Blotto' - just hysterical!
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on September 16, 2008, 08:09 PM:
 
This is one of the great ones, (I have the Blackhawk silent version, which plays quite nice, but I would love to have the 2X400ft version.)

My personal favorite : Towed in the Hole!

Great review Steve AND that looks like a still from the rpint at the bottom of the review. Is it not?
 

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Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 16, 2008, 08:29 PM:
 
Evening, Gents!

They are both just pictures I found on the 'net, but I'd say the boys in the fountain is a screen shot.

Osi, congratulations on your little boy! MY little boy loves "the Music Box". When we are out in the car and drive past a house with a big front staircase. He often says "That's the house up there! Right on top of the stoop!"

About two years ago they did an activity on movies at pre-school and they asked the kids who their movie heroes were. He said "Laurel and Hardy", which caused a lot of brains over there into a forced re-boot!

I love the early talkies, sure they are old today, but when you see one you’re witnessing the dawn of a whole new era in entertainment. It's hard to imagine the creative possibilities and challenges the studios found themselves facing in those days.

The great thing about watching a late L&H silent is you can lip read them doing those stock lines they would be doing on the track a few years later. They were ready!

"Why don't you do something to HELP me?"
 

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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 16, 2008, 09:58 PM:
 
Steve's story of his son reminds me of my grandson, who is now quite familiar with 'The Boys' films. Whenever we are out together and something goes wrong he always exclaims " Another fine mess!" .
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on September 17, 2008, 10:09 AM:
 
Steve,

I agree on those silents. In fact, when a company rereleased them on restored laserdisc versions, a fan of Laurel and Hardy, took a number of the greatest silents, (Double Whoopee among them) and having the two's vocals spot on, did them as sounds, with the original Hal Roach music. I heard one of them and though I knew it wasn't them, it certainly sounded spot on.

But you always know it's not them.
 

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Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 17, 2008, 02:56 PM:
 
Osi,

I've never has a Blackhawk silent version of an L&H talkie. Did Blackhawk cut intertitles into these?

-maybe the ones with the little Indian at the bottom?

Blackhawk did a nice job putting music and effects tracks on some of the silents. The only problem is on the two of these that I have ("Two Tars" and "You're Darn Tootin!"), they use the pretty much the same music!
 

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Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on September 17, 2008, 07:43 PM:
 

quote:

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Reel one is wonderfully sharp. Reel two is a little soft but probably more noticeable because mine are spliced together and therefore easier to compare.

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quote:

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It gives you a couple of seconds of that classic Vitaphone 60 Hz. hum here and there which at this late date is strangely comforting.

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Heaven forbid we should ever watch it digitized, stereofied, pasteurized, homogenized and colorized!

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and ... I'll keep my eye out for the pre 1974 "Music Box"

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I will keep collecting and buying and trading for as long as I can, but let's face it there isn't too much life left.

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So sad statement ...
 

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Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on October 27, 2009, 03:51 PM:
 
It's a sad statement, I agree. I am not in any way down on film. Just the opposite, I love the celluloid medium. I just feel it's hard to have a "it's 1/2 full" outlook where 8mm and 16mm are concerned. True, lots of collectors are selling real treasures that they've kept in excellent condition and many are very honest about what to expect. How nice it would be if there were NEW 16mm prints available or if the studios did NEW 8mm prints, but because collectors are a minority I feel it's only a matter of time before there's just nothing out there anymore and then digital has won. I know some projectors are refurbished very nicely, but how long can that continue if NEW parts just aren't available anymore? I love my film and my projectors.
 

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Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on October 27, 2009, 04:25 PM:
 
In the past few months I've purchased new 16mm trailers of Jurassic Park 3, Signs, and North By Northwest. Thanks to Derann and Andec.
 

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Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on October 27, 2009, 05:44 PM:
 

quote:

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How nice it would be if there were NEW 16mm prints available or if the studios did NEW 8mm prints, but because collectors are a minority I feel it's only a matter of time before there's just nothing out there anymore and then digital has won. I know some projectors are refurbished very nicely, but how long can that continue if NEW parts just aren't available anymore? I love my film and my projectors.

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Brad, I hope you did not understand me. I wrote your statement was very sad just because, unfortunately (should I say luckily?) I do have the same feeling. And I know the heyday of 8mm is past. Cannot avoid to feel so bad when I imagine the definitive sleep of our beloved passion.

So... SO WE SIMPLY HAVE NOT TO DO IT !
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 26, 2015, 12:17 PM:
 
Since there is already a review of this film here, I thought I would cut and paste my review of this short that I did elsewhere.

" I could just imagine how Stan "sold" the idea to Hal Roach ...

" Imagine the "Lads" simply moving a player piano up an endless flight of stairs and all the problems that can entail ... "

For some comedy teams, that would be a recipe for disaster. Even the great Marx Brothers could pull it off, nor could Abbot and Costello, but laurel and Hardy? YOU BET!!!

That's the premise of this classic film and it's a laugh riot. laurel and hardy, much like Charlie Chaplin, were masters at the genteel style of humor. Oh sure, they would go for pratfalls and violent humor when necessary, but they didn't need to go the way of the Three Stooges. They could get a laugh just by Stan peeping through a hole in a fence for Pete's sake. I do truly feel that they are the greatest comedy team to ever exist.

This film was during the powerhouse years of they're short subject output. They had just begun their feature film careers with such films as "Pardon Us" (Jailbirds) and were still a little uncomfortable stretching they're style of humor for over an hour, but they were masters of the short subject. This was one of they're longer ones, running around 32 minutes long. There is not wasted minute to this short. This short also holds the distinction of being the only Laurel and hardy film to win an Academy Award for best short subject!

Now, onto the print!

Blackhawk films had nearly all of Laurel and hardy's films at they're hands, (except for the later MGM years, and other outside films, such as "Flying Dueces" for RKO). Blackhawk could be hit or miss in print quality. In most cases, however, they were quite good to phenomenal! The features could have a slightly dupey quality to the prints, being just a tad bit soft in sharpness (and when it comes to these films from the late 20's to the mid thirties, that's sometimes a hard job having a pin sharp print!), they're Laurel and Hardy shorts were from OK to outstanding! This print is in the outstanding category!

Blackhawk did a number of prints of this title, both in Super 8, standard (and correct me if I am wrong folks, but also 16MM print!). They did vary in quality. The silent version they did (fitting onto one 400ft reel instead of 2X400ft, by making the film a 18fps silent short instead of the 24fps sound short) has tended to have a slightly dupey look, but this is no doubt due to them having to process the short as a 18fps short, which was unavoidable.

Unfortunately, I cannot verify as to whether this is the 2X400ft Silver Box edition of the short (these specific shorts Blackhawk made brand new negatives for and in most cases, had a superior product compared to they're earlier edtions), as I received it on one very full 600ft Boum reel and case, but I can say that it is probably the best sharpness and contrast I have ever seen coming from a laurel and Hardy Blackhawk short. This specific print is printed slightly darker than earlier prints but it works to it's advantage, as nearly all the short is outside, and the indoor scenes are quite good as well, no nighttime scenes to the short.

The sound is also very good. This edition of the short does NOT have the original title sequence, substituting Blackhawk titles for it. However, it does have the beginning cards or "prologue", describing the Lads situation, which isn't on every version of this Blackhawk did, (for instance, on the silent edition, they go straight from the Blackhawk titles to the first shot of the wife buying the piano).

This is a MUST HAVE for any Laurel and hardy fan. It shows the Lads at they're best! Don't miss out on this one!

"Fraternally Yours" and ...

LONG LIVE SUPER 8!!!! "
 

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Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 26, 2015, 01:06 PM:
 
It's a fantastic film Osi, one of my all time favourite L&H's.
Derann released it later on on a 1x600ft spool. Very nice print indeed and one sold last week on e bay UK to some lucky buyer.
 

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Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on February 26, 2015, 03:11 PM:
 
Charley Hall in this movie plays a postman, but he was in nearly all of there shorts, playing different characters. He was from Acocks Green in Birmingham England, i believe he was an electrician by trade but got into the movies, and he has a pub named after him in Birmingham in his honour. Listen hard next time you watch him with L&H, you can hear is Brummie twang.
 

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Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 26, 2015, 03:32 PM:
 
That's really interesting Paul, I shall look out for him now next time I watch mine.
 

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Posted by Roger Shunk (Member # 2836) on February 26, 2015, 06:15 PM:
 
I have both in Super8mm & 16mm since I'm collecting more 16mm films now. Both are great!

I purchased the L&H DVD The Essential 10 disc Collection. The picture quality is quite stunning on my DLP Projector since they were remastered from the 35mm negative. Disc 10 features on location with the boys where they tour the actual filming locations of their most popular shorts where they show before & after video of all the popular on location shots including the famous stairs.

The "Music Box" steps still exist. Oddly enough it took years to find them. It's hard to imagine an object that is stationary, several hundred feet long and weighs hundreds of tons getting "lost", but there was a lot of confusion over which of several sets of steps in the area it was and the surroundings have changed a lot.
 

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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on February 26, 2015, 06:45 PM:
 

quote:

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It's hard to imagine an object that is stationary, several hundred feet long and weighs hundreds of tons getting "lost",

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Really Roger? And I thought you were the best magician on the forum!
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 27, 2015, 11:37 AM:
 
I had forgotten Charley's name, and he was in a number of the features. I remember him in the "Dentist' scene from "Pardon Us"

" He says his tooth buzzes! "


 

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Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on February 27, 2015, 12:57 PM:
 
Yes Osi, he was in virtually all there short films ,along will James Finlayson, and Mae Busche. I just acquired "THERE FIRST MISTAKE", an early one from the boys, she plays ollies wife.

[ February 27, 2015, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Paul Browning ]
 

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Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 27, 2015, 01:17 PM:
 
I love the faces James Finlayson pulls. They still make me giggle to this day, especially in Way Out West. Just superb timeless comedy.
 

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Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on February 27, 2015, 04:19 PM:
 
Yes Andrew you got to love old James, no swearing, no murders, just timeless comedy, perhaps one of the freeview channels could dedicate just one channel to all these comedy greats, they'e not on any of our channels now, just the "so called comedy" with Miranda clap trap, what rubbish that is. Almost every visual joke, has been stolen from either Norman Wisdom, or L&H along with ALL the silent comedy stars, all the prat falls and tom foolery, just not as well done. There will never be another two like these guys, just unique.
 

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Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 27, 2015, 04:23 PM:
 
Just as well we all cling onto our films of these original "funny men" then Paul. We might be the only gang to try these out on future kids.

Now if only we had some Mr Ed, Munsters or Addams Family on 8!!

And yes, I know they are out there on 16 but I don't want to have to move house lol.
 

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Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on February 27, 2015, 04:37 PM:
 
I'll second that Andrew, lets re visit 1919 Mockingbird Drive on super 8,and Mr ED, just great TV.
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 28, 2015, 01:51 PM:
 
I will never forget Jimmy Finlayson in "Big Business", insanely wrestling with a Christmas tree on the ground, near the end of that classic short!!
 

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Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on March 02, 2015, 03:27 PM:
 
James Finlayson is my favourite!! He was great in all these Hal roach comedies.
I love his expressions in 'Mush N Milk' when he calls old cap and spanky picks up the phone....Finlayson asks 'Who is this speaking?" and Spanky looks into the phone and says' I don't know i can't see you'....

 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 07, 2015, 01:24 PM:
 
I really don't think that anyone did a better "double take" that James Finlayson, especially with the accompanying sound effects that were usually added by the Hal Roach sound editer!
 

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Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on March 08, 2015, 05:38 AM:
 
re the L&H 10 disc essentials collection on dvd. this is reckoned to be superior in quality compared to the universal released set. can anyone confirm this. thank you.
 

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Posted by Roger Shunk (Member # 2836) on March 08, 2015, 08:33 AM:
 
Paul,
I purchased the L&H DVD The Essential 10 disc collection. The picture quality is quite stunning on my DLP Projector since they were remastered from the 35mm negative.

The Essential box set collection is supposed to be one of the best! The picture quality on all the 10 discs is razor sharp &
quite amazing!
 

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Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on March 08, 2015, 11:56 AM:
 
many thanks Roger. that is of great help to me. thank you.
 

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Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on March 09, 2015, 11:01 AM:
 
'The picture quality is quite stunning on my DLP Projector since they were remastered from the 35mm negative.'

@Roger- You bring up an interesting point!...

See, this is the reason I opted out of buying the DVD set...for now...
We have a couple digital version of some of our super 8's and the kids don't like to watch them on the DVD...they look too good. There is something beautiful(in a strange way i suppose) about the dust and scratches, as long as they are not too many

Last week here in Hamilton, Ontario, I brought the kids to Mother's Pizza http://mothersrestaurants.com/ .This place is really nostalgic for many in this area because they were the only one's back in the 70's-80's who continuously played the oldies on super 8! You could watch Laurel and Hardy or Chaplin or whatever while eating pizza- FANTASTIC! Well anyways, although the food is still GREAT, it really bothered me watching laughing gravy on a 60 LED, mint quality.....while they had no sound turned on and some other radio music playing while we tried to watch.
Long live Dust and Scratches!
Cheers,
Matt

ps: btw- if you don't mind me asking, what kind of DLP did you end up with? I ask because i was looking at the elmo 85HD at one point. Looks amazing!
 

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Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 09, 2015, 12:25 PM:
 
I completely agree with you Mathew! There is nothing more bizarre I find, than watching a 1930's black and white movie, warts and all, on a 1080p digital projector!

They simply do not go together IMHO.
 

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Posted by Roger Shunk (Member # 2836) on March 09, 2015, 12:53 PM:
 
Greetings Matthew,

I have a Toshiba DLP TDP-XP2U. Has the Texas Instruments Brilliant Color Technology which makes a big difference in the color & picture quality. I had looked at another projector without it and there was a big difference in the color & sharpness of the picture quality especially on a blu ray disc.

Roger
 

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Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on March 09, 2015, 05:09 PM:
 
Thanx very much for that info Roger! I will research the one you got as well to narrow down which one I will like eventually. I like the whole idea projecting onto the wall rather than a TV!
Cheers,
Matt
 

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Posted by Roger Shunk (Member # 2836) on March 09, 2015, 06:54 PM:
 
Sure Mathew,
Do some research first on the projectors that is what I did and from what I read the best ones for picture quality are the ones that have the Texas Instruments Brilliant Technology. It has to do something with the color wheel because the colors on my projector are super vivid.
 

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Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 09, 2015, 10:39 PM:
 
Wow!

This topic certainly has evolved!

Where did Stan and Ollie go?


 

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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on March 10, 2015, 07:05 AM:
 
Another fine mess of a thread!
 

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Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 10, 2015, 07:57 AM:
 
I meant well when I started it!
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 10, 2015, 02:13 PM:
 
You did well, Steve, there's just so many tiny elements to any topic that can send it out in the middle of nowhere!

Classic film that every single super 8 film collection should have, (unless, of course, there is someone out there that hates the Lads!)
 

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Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on March 12, 2015, 02:58 PM:
 
For me, the boxed films suffice
 

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Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 12, 2015, 03:26 PM:
 
How wonderful to hear so many of you lauding the comedy skills of The Boys. I have many of their shorts and several of their features. I never tire of watching them and it's great to know that today's youngsters still find them adorably funny still. Such good clean family humour and even though they shared a bed in many of their films there was no suggestion of any impropriety. It was simply accepted as pure, innocent fun and part and parcel of the duos comedy partnership. So nice to know that they were friends to the very end.
 

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Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 12, 2015, 03:34 PM:
 
Far from it from all accounts Terry! Stan Laurel was known for his Casanova style womanizer ways apparently.An unlikely candidate I know but fame and fortune gets you anything in this world, even back then it would seem.
 

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Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 12, 2015, 03:51 PM:
 
Andrew
When I said 'impropriety' I meant between the two of them in the films. Not their private loves after the cameras stopped rolling. I can't imagine a modern comedy duo getting away with antics like sharing a bed together without some politically correct idiot making something out of nothing.
 

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Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 12, 2015, 03:51 PM:
 
Quite right Terry, quite right.
 

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Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on March 12, 2015, 04:26 PM:
 
Yes we love em!!!!, even after 80 odd years later, the visual gags, the word play, the look to camera was all done way back then. In fact morecome and wise did a regular sketch on there show, where they would share a bed and do the comedy, and they were big fans of the boys, that's why they did it too. Stan was certainly married a few times for sure, and was paid more than Ollie, in an agreement with Hal roach studios, he did the gag writing for the films along with Harold Lloyd, while Ollie played golf. His pay was incredible, considering these were made during the depression in the early 30's, when most were singing for there supper literally.
 

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Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on March 13, 2015, 12:13 AM:
 
One of the main things that drew us towards really enjoying L & H was the fact that we were a family who grew up watching Gilligan's Island, and although super corny to many, extremely enjoyable to others. My 3 kids are in the 8 to 13 age range now, so when they were younger, they really like watching GI. So it was naturally when I got into Super 8's and we started watching L&H, we were so surprised to learn how much Alan Hale and Bob Denver used of Hardy and Laurel in their characters. For example, the skipper stare...that is, every time gilligan blunders and skipper is affected in some capacity, he then looks at the camera with that classic 'fed-up' look:

which was totally borrowed from Ollie(James Finlayson does it too sometimes!):


Also, the hand gestures skipper always does, as if to say 'I'm staying right here' and twirls his index finger a couple of times before pointing down....that totally comes from Ollie...
The way skipper hits or picks on Gilligan, Ollie picking on Laurel, to a tee! etc...etc...

The Music Box is great. Apparently, there was a silent film called 'Hat's Off' that was remade with sound with some changes, which they called The Music Box. There is no copy of this film found, although, a reconstruction of the main ideas from pictures can be watched here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_WbrXEMU6E
Cheers,
Matt
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 18, 2015, 12:13 PM:
 
The "Lads" deserve every bit O praise that they have received!

They're comedy (as well as many of the classic comedians) show how laugh out loud funny, doesn't have to be toilet humor.

I was just reminded of my favorite moments from "Towed in the Hole", those lovely shots, from smaller and smaller placed, as Stan stares up at a paint drenched Ollie, (who Stan has inadvertedly showered with the paint), and after many shots back and forth (with Ollie glaring menaceingly), Stan then looks perplexed and asks ...

"Why do you have paint on you're head?"

... to which Ollie is about to reply, catches himself, staring into the camera ...

next shot, Stan now has two black eyes! (or was it one?)

magnificent gag!
 

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Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on June 15, 2015, 08:47 PM:
 
I have a mid-70's Blackhawk print of THE MUSIC BOX, pink box, pre-Lee Enterprises, and it is excellent -- there is nothing wrong with it.

I've heard that by the '80s the Blackhawk negative was beat-up and the prints were less than stellar.
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 16, 2015, 02:28 PM:
 
I read about the second half of some prints of the Music Box being fuzzy in image, and I'm happy to report that mine is great on both reels (whew!)

Joseph, in the early 1980's, Blackhawk, due to the problem that you were just mentioning, made brand new negatives of they're best selling titles for re-release as those "Silver Box Editions" and where possible, did they're best to get even better material, (for instance, original title cards if available or in some cases, original the end cards, which at times, the earlier releases wouldn't have), and in nearly all the cases, these later silver box editions better.

[ June 18, 2015, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: Osi Osgood ]
 

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Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on June 29, 2015, 03:50 PM:
 
I have heard that Blackhawk changed labs (again) around 1983 -- the bad print of THE MUSIC BOX I heard about was printed in 1983 -- with visible, printed-in splices. The '83 THEM THAR HILLS also had this kind of wear, but not as much.
 

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Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on June 29, 2015, 06:29 PM:
 
I have two sets of The Music Box... a pink box and a green box. I suppose I should sell one...but I'm having a hard time deciding which one looks better They both look and sound really good.

Everytime my grand kids come to visit...they always ask to see "the one with the piano..." So maybe having a backup copy is a good thing.
 

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Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on June 30, 2015, 12:06 AM:
 
I have "back up" copies of some of my favorites. I have my favorite digests and features in both 8mm sound versions and in 16mm. Some 8mm digests I also have "doubles" of. The same goes for my best loved features like "A Christmas Carol" and "It's A Wonderful Life". I use the 8mm for in-home small groups and the 16mm for when I have a larger group (10+ people) in a bigger room. I also buy duplicate copies just in case one should get "chewed" beyond repair or go vinegar on me. Let's face it... Film prints are not something that's still being manufactured so this way I'm never without.
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 01, 2015, 01:35 PM:
 
I'd like to have back-ups of many of my titles, but lack the room. I just do what many do, when I find a better print of a beloved title, I pass on the other on ebay ect.

Back to the lads ...

I hope that the restorations (talked about elsewhere) will become available on Blu-ray as, while I will always cherish my "Celluloid Lads", I would love to see just how good these restorations could be.
 

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Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on July 01, 2015, 04:18 PM:
 
Janice,

I would keep both prints of THE MUSIC BOX now unless you can get a fair trade -- it's a buyer's market right now for L&H on film.
 

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Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on July 01, 2015, 06:17 PM:
 
It was not legal for Blackhawk to release prints with MGM logos.

Roach sold the films to Film Classics.

The original 35mm elements are in poor shape.

The first three 35mm restorations debuted at the Turner Classic Movies Film Festival in 2014 and they are superb.

Don't count on a Blue Ray release.

Buy Laurel & Hardy: The Essentials DVD box set because the original release prints of Brats, Perfect Day, and their foreign language counterparts, are unavailable on Region 1.

I decided to purchase the L&H Box Set before it goes out of print, and Amazon is selling this box set for: $50.00.

I love films, and in the event all else fails, the L&H DVD set is another alternative.
 

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Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on July 01, 2015, 07:42 PM:
 
Occasionally Blackhawk let an M-G-M logo slip by -- I have a print.
Sometimes they left in Leo the Lion's roar over a blank screen before the main titles.
 

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Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on July 04, 2015, 09:21 AM:
 
...just a small note to Janice that if you ever decide to sell either of your copies...I would be interested in one of them, if they are not yet spoken for...I have been hoping for the music box for a while, but haven't found any copies I like or at a fair price....
Cheers,
Matt
 

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Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on July 04, 2015, 07:48 PM:
 
I have "The Essentials " set and it's the best you'll get here in the states. I bought it right away fearing it would go on moratorium very soon. The classics for some reason don't stay out for long and I didn't want to miss my chance to own one. Not every print is stellar, but the overall quality is sure better than the "Nostalgia Merchant" VHS series I have from over 20 years ago.
 

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Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on July 05, 2015, 12:58 AM:
 
Joseph,

I have a Blackhawk, Super 8mm Way Out West, and the head leader is similar to one that you mentioned in your collection. The soundtrack includes Leo the Lion roaring against a fanfare soundtrack, which builds to a crescendo and ending in a rest, before the orchestral Kuku music. This dramatic musical intro sets a tone of a fine film achievement, with the boys at the helm of great entertainment.
 

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Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on July 05, 2015, 08:08 PM:
 

quote:

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So it was naturally when I got into Super 8's and we started watching L&H, we were so surprised to learn how much Alan Hale and Bob Denver used of Hardy and Laurel in their characters.

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