8mm Forum: DIE HARD!! (Derann) Scope/stereo

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 29, 2009, 10:46 AM:

There are actions films ... AND THEN ... THERE ARE ACTION FILMS.

What do I mean by this?

We all know action films that were great, but they are not classics! A true classic is one that REDEFINES the whole genre.

DIE HARD is that film, and we are lucky to have it on Super 8.

The story, though well known, I'll relate!

Bruce Willis plays a New York officer on vacation to LA to visit his wife Holly and kids. She is a powerful executive at the Nakatoma business. They are holding a special Christmas party to celebrate a big deal. He sees her and the barbs are quickly flying. He wishes she would've stayed in New York, she wanted a career and moved to LA with the kids.

As Bruce is recovering, realizing he didn't approach this quite as well as he could've, a terrorist (robbers actually) break in and take everyone hostage, including Holly. The robbers have a reason for being there however. They are wanting to rob an incredibly good safe of the bonds and other stocks that are there, as well as a number of priceless works of art.

Bruce goes into a one man wrecking crew mode!

What follows is one of the absolute best set of action pieces ever seen in a film, all to save his beloved Holly. Well, that, and you don't piss off Bruce Willis. Of note is a smarmy executive or tries to put the moves on Holly and play the big guy, but gets blown away.

(Bruce is a air conditioning duct)

"Come on up to LA, have a bunch of laughs!"

As any classic film does, this film boasts some great repeatable lines ...

"Sir, this emergency line is reserved for emergency calls"

"No s**t lady, does it sound like I'm ordering a pizza?!"

he local police chief is giving Bruce crap down on the ground, (Bruce is in a high-rise), when Bruce is getting shot up and bloodied up above and he's had enough ...

" Oh yeah? Well, I'm not the one who just got butt fu**ed on live TV!! "

(OK, its a crude line; but incredibly good, especially the way Bruce delivers it!)

and, of course, the all time great line from the film ...

"Whoopie Ki Yi Ay Mother Fu**er!"

Also of great note is Alan Rickman, who plays the head robber.
He plays the man as an intelligent person and not some bozo.

"What kind of terrorists are you?"
"Who said we were terrorists?"

This film is an absolute winner from beginning to end, even a slight surpise end, when we think all the action is done. The cop down on the ground talking by CB cop radio made a career just a year or so later playing opposite of Urkel in that annoying comedy show. He also played a cop in the original "Ghostbusters" as well.

Another trend setter about this film was the use of music. During the beginning credits, we have ominous music, with the sound of jingle bells on the soundtrack. There was a reason for this, as the film takes place at Christmas time, but for quite a few years, a lot of action films included ominous music with jingle bells, not realizing that there was a reason for them in the case of Die Hard.

Now, onto this print ...

Derann, like any super 8 company, had great periods and near great periods for thier prints. Don't get me wrong, Deranns low points were better than other companies absolute best. This was , fortunately, one of the great periods. The scope image is incredible.

COLOR

The color is very natural. It doesn't have the plague of that bluish tint that some of the later prints have. All the colors are quite natural, and it is an AGFA print, so long lasting color.

SHARPNESS

The sharpness (focus) is extremely good. It can easily stand up against any 16MM scope prints of this.

GRAIN

Grain is slightly more than other Derann prints, but, as said before, Derann's high grain prints, are much better than the best by other companies.

SOUND

This print is in stereo and it is quite acceptable. Good range from that balance stripe which, if there is going to be a problem, it is usually there.

This print comes on 5X600ft reels. If you put one action film in your collection, make it this one. Please note: This film contains quite a few profanities. The foul language, however is done in a tasteful manner.

What do I mean by that?

The language us cushioned by being used in a humorous nature. I'm a trained, papered minister, (for instance), and yet, the language is used in a way that, since it is involved in a humorous situation, it "cushions the blow", instead of foul language used just for the sake of it. Hey, if I was in the Bruce's situation, (as when I used to be in combat in the army), I would use occasional profanities in the situation, so the use of profanities is logical. You wouldn't use "church" language when someone is trying blow you away. I know that this explanation isn't necessary, but I thought I would add it.

One slight shot of upper body nudity.

But hey, this is the perfect action flick for the holidays, as it takes place at Christmas time!

LONG LIVE SUPER 8!!

[ May 29, 2009, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Osi Osgood ]

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on May 29, 2009, 12:20 PM:

Thanks for reviewing Die Hard, Osi.

I have been tempted for many years to get this one, as it's one of my favorite action movies. They don't get much better than this one.

I had always hoped, and still do, that Derann will one day release extracts from this and other movies from their library. Its got some GREAT stand-out scenes that would work for a 400 footer.

A note of trivia:

On the "suprise ending" scene, the music played in the backround was actually composed for the "Aliens" soundtrack. It's even on the "Aliens" CD (I'll add the name of the title later). It was never used in that movie, so I guess FOX decided to use it for "Die Hard". Its a short, but very effective piece, that works for the scene.

James.

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on May 29, 2009, 12:20 PM:

Hello Osi

You are right on target with the details of this film. Nice job on the review.

I have completed the DH series for big screen presentation. I have the first two prints on super 8 and the rest on DVD. Nice to know with my equipment all four films can be shown on the same nice big screen!!

CG

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on May 29, 2009, 01:27 PM:

Interesting review...especially concerning the color. I got the last reel of the feature from Leon Norris a long time ago...I was NOT impressed....on my print the color is definitly bluish....I ran it with a dvd of it....definitly blue. Maybe this was a test print that was later corrected..or a later print that was fouled up. Focus was pretty good...sound not bad, but not a lot of stereo effect. Nick, if we have lunch sometime, I'd be happy to bring that reel and let you borrow it. Osi, I'm glad your print is really good. That film deserves a good super 8 treatment.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on May 29, 2009, 01:58 PM:

I agree Gary. I had a copy of this at one time and it was a little bluish. I also thought some of the scenes were a little dark. Its really noticeable in the opening scenes.
The sound was so so...not as bad as the worst Derann but not as good as the latest releases. I had mine re-recorded in Stereo and it was a vast improvement. Great separation when transferred from the DVD.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 29, 2009, 02:55 PM:

You guys are right about the stereo "effects" but then even on the DVD, this didn't rank very high in the stereo category. I must have gotten a great print then, when it comes to the image quality. This film does have a lot of natural blues to the print and especially with a lot of it happening in an industrial setting, (building), it could have been a lot worse.

I compared this to the DVD and Laserdisc copies that I have, and the colors are actually better (in my opinion) than those on the DVD or Laserdisc. They didn't seem to do a very good color check for the DVD or Laserdisc. Probably the same film transfer for both of them.

Perhaps later printings of it had a more bluish cast. I do know that later Disney releases from Derann have a bluish cast to them, (very apparent on Fantasia 2000).

I'd love to get a re-recording of the stereo soundtrack by Lance Alspaugh, but can't afford to at the moment.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on May 31, 2009, 01:41 PM:

Osi, I well remember renting this print from Derann for a week back in the mid-90's when Derann still had a hire library and it was a new release.

It may be "rose tinted" memories but I recall the print being pretty much perfect, with great colour. I think maybe you are lucky enough to have an early print run there.

Certainly the super 8 image on an 8 foot screen in those days could really be described as "state of the art"!

As for the sound, well, I recall that every profanity was cystal clear! Added to which, I sent the stereo track through a 7 band equaliser to tweak it and then into a Dolby pro-logic decoder; OK, so it wasn't Dolby Digital, but I do recall the floor actually shacking and a fair amount of effective surround sound going on...happy days! [Smile]

No comparison maybe with today's technology, but fond memories all the same...my brother-in-law (who doesn't easily come forward with praise) still mentions the screening to this day!

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 31, 2009, 07:29 PM:

Rob, your a man after my own heart!

I have a rather large ole fashioned two band graphic equalizer, (so that I can literally remix the sound on that nefarious balance stripe seperately, to improve it) and then send it through my Realistic brand DOLBY Surround processor, (vintage 1988) and then, finally, through my old school 8 large woofered speakers, (2 per corner, with a good 40 feet between the two front corners and the two back corners, and me and my wife sitting right about in the middle (at 20 feet) on that comfy couch!)

Talk about the house rockin!

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 01, 2009, 12:24 PM:

Osi, going to let you into a little secret here...just between you and me, otherwise people will think I'm crazy...

despite the obscene amounts of cash I have spent on digital this and that over the years, sometimes my super 8 stereo soundtracks still shake the floor (and my trousers) the way the likes of DTS Master Audio can only dream!!! [Smile]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 01, 2009, 07:18 PM:

Rob, you bring up a good point, though it really has nothing to do with Die Hard, but everything to do with audio presentation of films.

Though the six track (or more by now, I believe) surround sound mixes in modern films can be great, I think that sometimes, there can be so many little bells and whistles going off all around you, that it can be distracting from the dialogue and main audio that your main focus of attention should be on.

I still remember, seeing STAR WARS back at the dawn of surround sound, (well, Dolby as we pretty much know it today) being awed by great stereo sound up front, and yet, out of nowhere, having a ship leave the screen, coming right at you, and yet, actually hearing it roar over your head and behind you ...

... which really only took those four tracks.

I remember one of the best examples of that to this day, at the very beginning of the SPeilberg film, "Always" (any of you remember that little charmer?) ...

There are two men asleep in thier fishing boat. Way behind them, a fire-fighting plane comes down low and lands on the water, (to pick up some for a dousing, I suppose). It continues to creep up on them until it suddenly rises up, right before hitting them and roars off the screen.

That roar, going above your head and behind you, was an incredible example of that surround technology being used!

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 02, 2009, 07:16 AM:

Osi, at the risk of wandering off topic, I hear what you say.

My first experience of Dolby was at the Odeon in Glasgow, Scotland, of all places when I was 11 years old. We were on holiday in Scotland and had a day trip to the city where we saw "Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan".

Well, the sound of those ships rumbling overhead before they appreared on the screen blew me away! I agree, it was the restrained and appropriate use of the surround which really gave it the impact. In retrospect, I guess it was 70mm with 6 track magnetic and for a kid whose local cinemas were all optical mono, this was a revelation.

By the mid-90's to be able to replicate something even resembling this at home with super 8 was just awesome.

Of course now we all take for granted the sound whizzing around the room...like I say, happy days [Smile]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 03, 2009, 09:35 AM:

One the things I noticed right off about Die Hard (the movie, not the Super 8 film print), was it's wonderful sense of humor that, to a lesser or greater extant, was kept through-out the series.

Even though the action got to a cartoony level, what Bruce did in those actions scenes was plausible. I was also quite a fan of Alan Rickman after this, who's star hasn't soared quite a s high as Bruces, (though he was great in "Quigley Down Under").

The comment earlier in the posts about an early print of this by Derann, I'm inclined to agree with as well. There seemed to be a "Golden Age" of Derann prints that started somewhere in the late eighties through the early to mid nineties.

This is not to say that Derann prints lost thier razor sharp quality, but the color perfection seemed to be at it's best at that specific time.

Die Hard reflects this.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on June 03, 2009, 05:50 PM:

Continuing the off-topic subject.....

I have several examples of what you are talking about-

When Derann released "Star Wars" (around 1990, I think), I started buying it a reel at a time. Reels 1 & 2 have great colors. Reel 3, which I bought around 1996, has a green tint. Reel 4 is better than 3, but not as good as 1 & 2. All in all, its a very good print & a definate keeper, but, shows directly the ups and downs of their lab work.

I do think they have had improvements over the last few years, starting around when "Freeway Frenzy" was released. Derann started using a different lab at that time I think, and their prints have been more consistently good since then. Although not quite as good as those "golden days" in the early 90's.

CHC must also be commended for outstanding print quality in recent years. I hope Phil continues to release prints in the future.

James.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 03, 2009, 06:52 PM:

I think CHC's great quality as of late is largely due to his prints (from what I've heard) largely coming from the German labs.

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