8mm Forum: Way Out West

This is topic Way Out West in forum 8mm Print Reviews at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000349

Posted by Bradford A Moore (Member # 426) on July 02, 2009, 11:03 AM:

Hey All,

I just lucked out on ebay. I just got a very nice Blackhawk super 8 sound print of Way Out West, with Laurel and Hardy, which I only paid $27 dollars for. Prior to viewing it, I did some research on other prints of this film, and most haven't been so lucky. The only visible flaws were some minor scratches in the opening credits, but they could be pre print material. I would think in most prints, and from what is in mine, and I think very strange at that, you here the MGM lion during the count down. I was expecting it to have Blackhawk credits, but they were original.

Other than all of that, the film was very enjoyable, and a true find at such a low price. I also got with this deal for $58 dollars a better than expected print Of Sons Of The Desert. Not as great, just a little fuzzy hear and there. But combined was such a nice steal!

From what I had read about Way Out West, I was expecting it to be very grainy and washed out. To My surprise it was quite the opposite. In the description on ebay, it was said to have a difference in sound levels in reel two, but I didn't notice any difference. [Cool]

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on July 02, 2009, 07:38 PM:

If you want a really nice WAY OUT WEST, try to get Blackhawk's later printing from the M-G-M negative. What you got is from the Film Classics negative -- notice that Leo is air-brushed out.
The later Blackhawk has a white-on-black WAY OUT WEST title card followed by the remainder of the original credits. You can always splice on the credits you currently have onto that print.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 02, 2009, 11:20 PM:

One of mym problems with this print is, while it has good grain and a nice range of grey tones through-out, it is also a somewhat hard to focus print.

For a Blackhawk print, I was rather surprised, as the short subjects have a pin sharp focus in most cases. I have noted that most of the features are not as sharp as the shorts.

I'm surprised that I never got around to reviewing this one. Good Job!

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on July 02, 2009, 11:54 PM:

Tony knows, and is worth his weight in film
stock and print versions.

As Tony mentioned, splice the titles if
you find another version and also splice in
the MGM Lion Roar, that includes the fan-fare intro music.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on July 03, 2009, 02:27 PM:

In reference to Blackhawk super 8 prints, if there was one flaw to them, it would be slightly soft focus. Of about 50 Blackhawk prints that I own, about one fourth of them have slightly soft focus. But...not enough to be noticed by the average viewer. They are still good prints, just not quite as sharp as maybe the Castle 200 foot b/w digests.

James.

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on July 03, 2009, 10:48 PM:

James,

True.

We refer to the Castle 200' films as digests.
Castle listed them as "Standard/Complete."

[Wink]

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on July 04, 2009, 02:56 PM:

Good point Michael!

I always thought that was wierd too.

James.

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on July 06, 2009, 07:17 PM:

quote:
Tony knows, and is worth his weight in film
stock and print versions.

Thank you, Michael!

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on July 06, 2009, 07:30 PM:

Tony,

I have a 16mm Blackhawk of Way Out West as you described.
The fine grain materials yield the best sharpness
and contrast and the image leaps off the screen.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 07, 2009, 09:04 AM:

All your talk about the beginning credit sequences on this feature made me interested about my print. So I unreeled the credits.

No Blackhawk titles whatsoever on it. It starts out with the "Hal Roach Presents Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy, with the second title stating the title of the film. So, it appears that my copy has the whole original titles. Was this a later printinf of this title?

The other little mystery is, right after the last countdown, on the leader, ("3" of course), the original leader to the film must start, as it has five frames of a lovely woman. Is this the 1930's version of the "Lilly"? If so, does anybody know who it is? An upcoming starlet, or just a handy model for photography at the time?

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on July 07, 2009, 08:17 PM:

Michael,

I went through 2 Super 8 copies from the FC neg, then settled on the 16mm one that you describe.

Osi,

You have the earlier printing from the FC neg. I believe that BH used the M-G-M neg first in 16mm, since my copy is on '75 stock, while one of my Super 8s was on '77 stock, if I remember correctly.

[ July 10, 2009, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Tony Stucchio ]

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on July 09, 2009, 01:07 AM:

Tony,

Glad to hear that you snagged the best one
of W.O.W.

I also have a Blackhawk 16mm of Bohemian Girl
that is also printed in 20 minute sections.
Great sharpness and Contrast.
Sound that chimes with a wonderful sparkle.

However this title is not on my top 10 of favs.

Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on July 10, 2009, 01:55 AM:

I have an older std 8 sound print and it is very sharp,great contrast.On the other hand,I never saw a print of Sons Of The Desert that wasn't soft focus.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 10, 2009, 09:20 AM:

You make a good point John, and I know that it has been talked into the ground, but though BH has manufactured many a good Super 8 print, I have NEVER (to this date) seen a bad standard 8mm BH print.

Thanks for that good point.

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on July 10, 2009, 04:34 PM:

John,

I have a Standard 8 Sons of the Desert, and it has
improved focus over the Super 8.
The only difference is that the Standard 8 has
a lighter or grayer appearance which may seem
softer but it is still sharp. The Super 8 in the silver
top box from 1984 has good density, but soft.

The best is the 1974 16mm but slightly a tad soft.
Later releases had all original titles
with the MGM logo and a superimposed
with the Blackhawk Indian.

Regarding W.O.W., I had a Blackhawk silent
Standard 8mm 400 foot edition and it was
very good and not soft.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on July 11, 2009, 10:32 PM:

I have a 16mm print of WHACKY WEST (the W.O.W. cutdown) and it's stunning. Go figure?!

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 12, 2009, 01:58 PM:

I haven't heard any guesses as to who is the woman in the five frame "Lilly" at the beginning of "Way Out West".

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on July 13, 2009, 12:34 PM:

The gray scale test pattern figure
is on many print releases.
She is on many of the 16mm films that
I own.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on July 16, 2009, 04:01 PM:

The woman is either Pickford or Rosina Lawrence - My nickel on it

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on July 16, 2009, 05:33 PM:

Good theory.
I disagree.

Rosina Lawrence came on the scene in the mid to late thirties.
Why would Pickford model?

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on January 09, 2014, 02:12 PM:

I have a sound print that came in the pink box and a 16mm cutdown called "Wacky Westerners". My super 8 print is nice and the sound is good. However, the 16mm cutdown, also from BLACKHAWK, is really terrific in both picture and audio.

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on May 10, 2017, 12:19 AM:

I've recently won Way Out West on Standard 8mm Sound,the picture quality is quite good and the sound was nice and clear.
It's on 4 x 400ft reels with the last reel having about 200ft.
It starts with the title of W.O.W. with no mention of Blackhawk Films until the end of the closing credits.
I watched it over 2 nights and will watch it again soon in one go,then I will see if it goes for the 63 or 64 mins that the original print did [Smile]

I enjoyed the 3 songs in it and the mule/donkey scenes are fun!

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on May 10, 2017, 01:51 AM:

Bradford
Well done on getting a good copy of wow but I do not understand the term 'lucked out'. It just seems a contradiction in terms when in actual fact you have 'lucked in'. [Cool]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on May 10, 2017, 02:41 AM:

quote:
I do not understand the term 'lucked out'. It just seems a contradiction in terms when in actual fact you have 'lucked in'.

Terry... I do understand your confusion.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=LUCKED%20OUT

TOP DEFINITION

LUCKED OUT

In the UK this has the exact opposite meaning to that in the USA.

[Wink]

cheers,

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on May 10, 2017, 11:11 AM:

Hi Clinton,

As a dual 8mm collector, I would love to see picts from your Regular 8mm Blackhawk Films print of W.O.W, because my Super 8mm print is soft in appearance on the long shots.

A unique and unusual part in this S-8 print is that it contains the original opening fanfare music containing the roaring MGM lion sound track that's scored onto the countdown leader preceding the opening title.

I also have the silent Regular 8mm 400' edited print by Blackhawk that's titled
Way Out West and not titled The Wacky West, although this edition is basically identical and this edition is sharp with good contrast.

As a completist I have a 16mm W.O.W. printdown taken from 35mm material and also the 16mm The Wacky West cut down edition.

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on May 10, 2017, 08:03 PM:

Hi Michael De Angelis,
These pics are not longshots but they are taken using my iPad.
I think the picture isn't too soft compared to others I own.
The sound is good too.
My Standard 8mm sound film doesn't have the MGM lion and just starts with the title cards.
I can take more shots next time if you like [Smile]

Here's a link to a scene from my copy ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ2Tm-bQ69k

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 10, 2017, 08:34 PM:

Michael ... I have the same S8 4x400 version as you do with the Lion roaring during the count-down leader and then there is a flash of a women's face for maybe a second. I actually never noticed the lion roar before reading this thread:)

I also have the S8 2x400 version called "The Whacky West." I actually like this version the best. It's shorter and has all the good parts.

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on May 10, 2017, 09:07 PM:

I have a feeling that my countdown has been cut-off.
It may have contained the Lion,but I will never know I guess.
My first reel has a Mr Magoo cartoon first and then almost straight into the Way Out West (joined)

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on May 11, 2017, 12:59 AM:

Clinton,
Thank you and I appreciate seeing the W.O.W picts that are very good, and the bonus video clip is my favorite part with Ollie's neck caught in the trap door.

I have to give a shout to some other Reg 8mm films that you posted on YouTube that are enjoyable: The Lone Dale Operator and the Carnival Films Our Gang title The Mighty Hunter. Last but not least I was also able to connect with the YouTube from your Reg 8mm sound film Hog Wild that has a better appearance than many if not mostly all of the Blackhawk 16's, including the Film Classic 16mm TV Prints,

Hog Wild is one of my top five L&H shorts, and it's very difficult to find a decent print, and yours is a keeper.

Janice, the S8 2x400 "The Whacky West." is a neat cut down because it runs as a 3 reeler that includes the songs from the feature. Blackhawk released a few L&H feature films in 30minute segments. many years later. Blackhawk also sold "Fun On The Run'" which is a cut edit that's essentially the last half of The Sons of the Desert. and both of these edits were featured for many years in the Laurel and Hardy TV Package.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 12, 2017, 11:46 AM:

Yes, many thanks Clinton!

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on May 12, 2017, 02:11 PM:

I have two versions of West the Walton Films sadly abridged to 6 reels and Mountain Films release 8 reels must get round to viewing them soon.

Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on May 14, 2017, 09:34 PM:

The best Blackhawk printing of WAY OUT WEST has the Blackhawk title card followed by the original credits.

At least 2 prior versions exist, both with all original titles (with Leo the Lion airbrushed out): one has the opening fanfare before the titles start (with the M-G-M roar in the background), and one does not. In my experience the one without the fanfare has the slight edge, but both are trumped by the version I indicated above.

Of course, this is just one collector's opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on May 15, 2017, 12:14 AM:

Well I timed each of the 400ft reels as I was curious if I had the complete film [Smile]

And I have - reel 1 runs for nearly 16 mins , reel 2 for 19 mins . reel 3 for 17.5 mins and reel 4 for 10 mins ...
62.5 mins total with open title and closing title intact [Smile]

It's a great watch too,I enjoyed the musical numbers,I enjoyed the donkey scene,stretching Ollies neck was clever too [Smile]

Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on May 15, 2017, 07:41 PM:

Clinton,

WAY OUT WEST runs 65 minutes.
[Frown]

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on May 15, 2017, 08:12 PM:

I think allowing for my projector possibly running minutely fast then it is close enough [Smile]

1 hr 4 min (64 min) (copyright length)
1 hr 3 min (63 min) (TCM print)

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2