8mm Forum: Fantasia 2000

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Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on October 25, 2009, 10:59 AM:

FANTASIA 2000

USA, 1999
Running time: 75 min.
Derann Release

- Ludwig van Beethoven's 'Symphony No. 5 in C minor-I. Allegro con brio' – abstract patterns resembling butterflies and bats explore a world of light and darkness which are conquered by light at last (directed by Pixote Hunt).

- Ottorino Respighi's 'Pines of Rome' – this segment features a family of frolicking humpback whales that are able to fly due to a supernova. At one point, the whale calf is separated from his parents when he's trapped in an iceberg, later finding his way out with his mother's help. The final section, the Via Appia gives the impression of the larger pod of adults in migration (directed by Hendel Butoy).

- George Gershwin's 'Rhapsody in Blue' – an episode of 1930s-era New York City, depicting the day in the lives of several people within the Depression-era bustling metropolis, as scenes drawn in the style of Al Hirschfeld's famous cartoons of the era, including an animated cameo of Gershwin the composer himself at the piano. The little girl in the hotel is based on the Eloise character created by Kay Thompson and the red-haired man is based on John Culhane, the author for the "making of" books for both Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 (directed by Eric Goldberg).

- Dmitri Shostakovich's 'Piano Concerto No. 2 in F Major-I. Allegro' – based on Hans Christian Andersen's The Steadfast Tin Soldier. The setting is appropriate - the concerto was written as a gift by Shostakovich to his musically gifted young son, and the percussive rhythms also suit a story about a soldier. However, the ending is a happy one in contrast with that of the original story (directed by Hendel Butoy).

- Camille Saint-Saëns's 'The Carnival of the Animals, Finale' – A flock of flamingos try to force a slapstick member who enjoys playing with a yo-yo to engage in their "dull" routines, designed to delight children with the on-screen hysterics; music arranged by Peter Schickele. A number of real yo-yo tricks, including "Walk the Dog", "Rock the Cradle", and "UFO", are featured (directed by Eric Goldberg).

- Paul Dukas's 'The Sorcerer's Apprentice' – a segment from the original Fantasia featuring Mickey Mouse. Mickey brings a broom to life with the magical hat left by his master to carry water to a cauldron, but is in danger when he can't stop the broom (directed by James Algar).

- Edward Elgar's 'Pomp and Circumstance - Marches 1, 2, 3 and 4' – is a pastiche of the story of Noah's Ark, with Donald Duck as first mate to Noah. Donald musters the animals to the Ark, and misses, loses, and is reunited with Daisy Duck in the process; music arranged by Peter Schickele, including a wordless soprano solo by Kathleen Battle as part of the No. 1 March ('Land of Hope and Glory'). Directed by Francis Glebas.

- Igor Stravinsky's 'Firebird Suite' - 1919 Version – the story of a spring Sprite and her companion Elk. After a long winter she restores the life to the forest but accidentally awakes the fiery spirit of destruction (the namesake Firebird of the piece) in a nearby volcano. The Firebird proceeds in destroying the forest and seemingly the sprite. She is restored to life however after the destruction and the forest life is reborn with her after some encouraging from the Elk. The story is considered an exercise in the theme of life-death-rebirth deities. The animation is based on the May 18th, 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens. The final tableau is a near analogue of the view of the volcano's crater from "Windy Ridge" (directed by Gaëtan and Paul Brizzi).

The plan for the original Fantasia movie was for it to be a kind of permanently running show, periodically adding new episodes while others would be rotated out. However, the film's failure to achieve success at the box office, combined with the loss of the European market due to World War II, meant that the plan went unused. Accordingly, Fantasia 2000 implemented this idea by retaining the sequence with Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer's Apprentice, arguably the most popular segment from the original film.

Composer André Previn reports in his book No Minor Chords that he was approached by Disney to work on as a sequel to Fantasia. He declined the project when he learned that the soundtrack was, at that point, conceived of as an orchestration of Beatles songs.

Development for Fantasia 2000 began in 1990, and production began the following year. The music selections were made as a collective decision by Roy E. Disney, James Levine, and members of the production staff. Most were decisions driven by the musical preferences of the team; Roy personally chose the Pines of Rome. Other pieces were discovered long after the story ideas were set, such as the Steadfast Tin Soldier, where the visuals were based on artwork done for the original Fantasia, but the Shostakovich piece was presented to the team by an animator relatively late into the production schedule.

Fantasia 2000 was originally scheduled for a release in the mid 1990s with the name Fantasia Continued; it was later renamed Fantasia 1999 until the release date was moved into 2000. In order to tie Fantasia 2000 to the original idea of a rotating program, three sections from the original Fantasia were intended to remain in Fantasia 2000. However, only 'The Sorcerer's Apprentice' made it into the final release. The late addition of 'Rhapsody in Blue' replaced 'Dance of the Hours' a year before release, and the 'Nutcracker Suite' was a part of Fantasia 2000 until a few months before it reached theaters. After several test screenings and after much of the publicity material had already been produced, the 'Nutcracker Suite' was removed to shorten the running time of the movie.

'Rhapsody in Blue' was a work already in progress by director Eric Goldberg (lead animator for the Genie in Aladdin, also inspired by Al Hirschfeld's art), when Disney approached him to complete the piece for the movie. This decision was ideal given the head start on the work and so that the film could include a work from an American composer. Taking on 'Rhapsody in Blue' also allowed Disney to keep the animators assigned to their feature Kingdom of the Sun (later released as The Emperor's New Groove) busy while Kingdom went through an extensive rewrite. Some press articles written after the completion of Groove reversed the roles, saying that Goldberg first approached Disney for Rhapsody for Fantasia 2000 and was initially rejected, and later the producers came back to him as a result of the need find something to do with the animation staff while the Kingdom rewrite was going on.

One significant difference in the musical styles between the films is that in Fantasia 2000 the piano features prominently in more than half of the selections, while the original Fantasia did not have a piano in any segment.

Fantasia 2000 features many technical innovations that would later be utilized in the Disney studio's other animation works, particularly in the use of computers. Both 'Pines of Rome' and 'The Steadfast Tin Soldier' were primarily CGI pieces, completed before Pixar's landmark film Toy Story was released. The horns on the elk in The Firebird were CGI-rendered on top of hand-drawn animation (giving them a higher consistency, when compared to 'Bambi' which was all drawn by hand), a technique that would be used in 'Treasure Planet' for the character Silver.

The producers felt that some break between the musical segments was necessary to "cleanse the palate", so a series of "interstitials" were directed by Disney animation producer Don Hahn. Instead of using a single narrator as in Fantasia, the individual pieces are introduced by people from different areas of the art world. After the film opens with Beethoven's Fifth, Steve Martin discusses the history of Fantasia being a continuing concept and is immediately followed by Itzhak Perlman, who introduces 'Pines of Rome'. Quincy Jones leads into the Gershwin number, and Bette Midler gives an introduction to the Shostakovich concerto, both featuring on screen the piano players for the respective pieces. James Earl Jones introduces 'Carnival of the Animals' with director Eric Goldberg, and, appropriately enough, magicians Penn and Teller make an appearance before 'The Sorcerer's Apprentice'. When this piece concludes with Mickey Mouse's conversation with conductor Leopold Stokowski from the original Fantasia, Mickey then moves on to chat with Levine before the latter introduces 'Pomp and Circumstance'. The final sequence of The Firebird is introduced by Angela Lansbury.
(from Wikipedia)

The 8mm Derann release is supplied on 4*600ft spools. It is the complete letterboxed theatrical edition with STEREO sound.
A little bluish, but very good color and definitely a stunning print. A 'must' for all of Disneys collectors.

Unfortunately, this was the last full Disney animated feature released by Derann, but thanks God it is still available. Separate segments are available too.

Some shots from my print were already posted on the WHAT FILM DID YOU SHOW LAST NIGHT section. More will be soon posted here.

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on October 25, 2009, 06:00 PM:

More shots from FANTASIA 2000 by Derann.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on October 25, 2009, 07:18 PM:

Gian,

What a great review! This is one of my favorite titles in my collection and even though the print (as you said) is on the blue side, it is still an extraordinary release.

Doug

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on October 25, 2009, 08:03 PM:

Doug, thanks a lot. And, once more, I totally agree. This movie is really a must.
Ciao!

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on November 04, 2009, 06:39 PM:

Fantasia 2000 TRAILER

The trailer is simply fantastic (and the super 8 print too!). [Big Grin]

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on November 06, 2009, 12:41 AM:

Gian, good review and great print. I have the Gershwin segment. Wish I could find the Saint Saens extract. I don't really care for the others.

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on November 06, 2009, 01:51 AM:

Grazie Jean! Hope you will! [Big Grin]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 07, 2009, 10:05 AM:

Gian, just curious. Is the "Scorceror's Apprentice" segment in letterbox like the rest of the feature, or is it in the original full frame (flat) of it's original prrsentation?

I have the classic Era Disney 200ft 9 minute segment, which I just add to the rest of the Fantasia 2000 feature, as the copy that I bought didn't have MIckey's segment.

I note that in your screen captures, that your print has that bluish cast as well. While it is passable, I think it works better when it is a live action film. Color is so important when it comes an animated film.

Still, I was so surprised when this ended up being released on Super 8 by Derann. After all, it is a year 2000 movie. I wonder if this was perhaps among the last Disney/Derann official releases?

UPDATE! I read the last part of the review. Yes, it was the last Disney Derann feature release.

There was only one thing I didn't like about this fantasia 2000.
The original did only have one person who introdued each segment and I felt that this worked quite well. I think it was a mistake to have assorted different people introduce the film.
. I'm sure that they could have come up with someone who would have been perfect to introduce all the segments.

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 16, 2010, 04:02 PM:

Osi, sorry I never replied your question about THE SORCERER'S APPRENTICE/FANTASIA 2000.
I'm reading this just tonight.

You had asked:

quote:
Gian, just curious. Is the "Scorceror's Apprentice" segment in letterbox like the rest of the feature, or is it in the original full frame (flat) of it's original prrsentation?

Our friend Fabrizio had stated the following in another thread I quote here:

quote:
...the same ratio was also in 35mm prints and is the original one from Fantasia.
Putting to 1,85 format would have ment cutting some pieces of image or inserting some new pieces

Hope this will help.
Ciao.

Posted by Jeroen van Ooijen (Member # 1104) on January 17, 2010, 07:07 AM:

I hope one day it is in my collection [Wink]

Jeroen

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 17, 2010, 12:28 PM:

Hope the same for you, Jeroen.
It would be a great purchase.
Take care. Ciao.

Posted by Jeroen van Ooijen (Member # 1104) on June 19, 2010, 09:52 AM:

Finally,i won this one,i hope it's a great print. [Big Grin]

I want to know more about the print and the sound,please people tell me.
How many prints are there from Fantasia 2000 and is it hard to get,i think i'am lucky. [Smile]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on June 19, 2010, 10:54 AM:

Hi Jeroen,

You may be the lucky one, ... how much did you pay for it?

chhers

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on June 19, 2010, 11:26 AM:

I believe the last bid was $179.

Posted by Jeroen van Ooijen (Member # 1104) on June 19, 2010, 11:53 AM:

Exactly 179,50 it's 145,00 Euro,did you bid too [Smile]

it was on my wishlist for a long time,so lucky me [Big Grin]

Any comments about this feature,my favorite scene is the last one Firebird!

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on June 20, 2010, 05:37 PM:

I'd say the main thing is be prepared for the blue tint - it was too much for me to hang on to my print, but it's a subjective matter and clearly Gian was happy with his. I know that Derann tried to minimise it, but for some reason the colour was so far out on the negative that it was beyond the capabilities of the lab to completely correct it.

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on June 20, 2010, 06:08 PM:

Hi Adrian. Thanks for stating that.
I was told once some copies have excellent color. But I'm sure all prints are on the blue side.
Mine too has that blue cast to the color. I'm in love with it. So, considering I'm sure BETTER COPIES WITH EXCELLENT COLOR WERE NEVER RELEASED, I'm happy with it.

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on June 21, 2010, 02:18 AM:

Yes I bid but considered the blue color cast when I put in my bid. Obviously, I was outbid. I do have a good color Sorcerer's Apprentice on 16mm anyway.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on June 21, 2010, 07:26 PM:

I think it's always easier to live with something like a blue tint, if - as Gian says - you know that there are NO copies with perfect colour out there!

Posted by Jeroen van Ooijen (Member # 1104) on June 22, 2010, 06:26 AM:

I'am glad that i've won it,soon i'll put the youtube link here ok? [Wink]

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on August 21, 2012, 11:15 PM:

Having just shown a worn but enjoyable copy of this I got early this year from The Reel Image with DVD sound, I have some information here that might be useful to anyone needing technical details on Fantasia 2000. I had to carefully account for the timings and lengths of each of the original reels (even though my copy came all spliced together on an extend-a-reel) to make that audio work.

The Fantasia 2000 print is absolutely complete at 74 1/2 minutes and came on 4 reels, not 3, which appear to correspond precisely to the reel configuration of the 35mm theatrical release prints. Reel 2 is unusually long for a single reel, but due to the thinner polyester stock would've still fit comfortably on a 15" theater reel or a 7" Super 8 reel. Still, this Super 8 print apparently came from Derann on 8" 600' reels anyway.

This is a "masked" flat print, which is to say, "letterboxed." The masking is decently steady and perfectly consistent from reel to reel, so it's quite reasonable to shorten the height of your screen or use a wider screen and "zoom out" to fill the width. "Sorcerer's Apprentice" is printed relative to that masking, so none of the original image is cut off. However, on this Super 8 print, by combining the widescreen mask with the narrower image, you end up with black on all 4 sides of the picture in this segment, making this print of "Apprentice" a bad choice for a standalone cutout. You'd be better off with the Super 8 prints made from the 1940 original printed full frame if you need that segment by itself.

The image quality on this print is wonderfully sharp, and other than the aforementioned blueishness, most noticable on the host segments with questionable skin tones, has lovely color.

While the sound on my print is booming loud and true stereo, the timing between the two channels is quite inaccurate and varies from reel to reel, making surround playback from the projector "unstable." Most noticably, the speaking of the hosts tended to come from the rear speakers instead of the center. At first I thought one channel was out of phase with the other, but after recording the track into the computer, I could see that one channel would be ahead of the other by a good many milliseconds. So unfortunately the sound recording could be better.

For the musical purists in the crowd, please note that all of these pieces, excepting "Sorcerer's Apprentice," were musically abridged and/or edited by the Disney gurus.

Here is a rundown of the contents of each reel.
REEL ONE (15:48)
--intro montage (homage to the 1940 Fantasia)
--Beethoven Symphony 5 (1st movement)
--hosts Steve Martin and Itzak Perlman
--Respighi "Pines of Rome" (whales)
REEL TWO (22:15)
--host Quincy Jones (& jazz pianist)
--Gershwin "Rhapsody in Blue" (set in New York City)
--hostess Bette Midler
--Shostakovich Piano Concerto #2 (soldier & ballerina)
REEL THREE (21:03)
--host James Earl Jones (& animator)
--Saint-Saens "Carnival of the Animals"
--hosts Penn & Teller
--Dukas' "Sorcerer's Apprentice" (Mickey Mouse, 1940)
--James Levine, conductor (and Mickey and Donald chasing around the room in surround sound)
--Elgar "Pomp and Circumstance" marches (Donald and the Ark)
REEL FOUR (15:24)
--hostess Angela Lansbury
--Stravinsky "The Firebird" suite (1919)
--end credits for a whopping 5 1/2 minutes!!!

Also, the trailer for Fantasia 2000 was also printed up and has even better color than the feature (don't you hate it when that happens) and similar excellent sharpness. It has a tiny bit of masking - I'm guessing for a 1.66 ratio - and is the Imax presentation trailer for the 1.1.2000 release.

Posted by Akshay Nanjangud (Member # 2828) on August 22, 2012, 02:31 AM:

What a coincidence! This afternoon I received my print of Fantasia 2000 and we just finished watching it. Perhaps that's because this is animation, the bluish tint didn't hurt us.

The stereo sound on my print is fantastic!

Bill, my print on stock marked "A G 2 S". Can you check if yours is the same? I suspect it is LPP.

[ August 22, 2012, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: Akshay Nanjangud ]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 22, 2012, 06:14 AM:

Akshay, if the code says AG 2 S then it is AGFA. We cannot say LPP because it is a trade mark of Kodak. The generic term for it is "Low Fade".

Btw, I can see the bluish tint discussed above from your screen shots. I think that is way toooo much for me.

Cheers,

[ August 22, 2012, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on August 22, 2012, 11:29 AM:

Hi Akshay, yes mine is also Agfa, and the stereo sound on mine has a hugeness that's hard to beat; however, the difference compared to the DVD audio track is pretty obvious. Your print looks gorgeous, congratulations. However, the "Rhapsody in Blue" shots have a greenish cast to them that differs from what I saw - but could that be the camera?

Winbert, if that looks too blue for you, tis true, for you it will not be a pleasing hue.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 22, 2012, 11:54 AM:

Blue Hue!
Blue Hue!
Blue Hue!
Boo Hoo!

(Sob!)

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on August 22, 2012, 12:34 PM:

...but not a single one of my 16 viewers seemed to notice it. Certainly no comments were made concering the Blue Hue, boo hoo.

Posted by Akshay Nanjangud (Member # 2828) on August 22, 2012, 01:03 PM:

Bill, you are right about the viewers. No one I watched it with complained. Having said that, the skin tones during the introductions are quite bad though. Like I said, it doesn't hurt much during the cartoon sequences.

[ August 27, 2012, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Akshay Nanjangud ]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 22, 2012, 01:05 PM:

Glad to see that your enjoying your print of Fantasia 2000 Akshay, and very nice screenshots! I wish I was capable of that. The "Rhapsody in Blue" sequence is supposed to be various shades of blue i.e. "Rhapsody in Blue".

By the way, I do agree, the parts that are the most affected by the bluish tint are the live action sequences.

By the way, I would personally suggest, for those who do not have the "Sorcerers Apprentice" number in thier print (The one I traded to Akshay doesn't have it), go ahead and get a good color copy off of ebay of the super 8 release that Disney did back in the day.

This is because the prints made especially for the "Fantasia 2000" are letterboxed, which is cutting off a good deal of the image from top to bottom, where the original super 8 release from the early 80's is the near correct apsect ratio. That's just a pet peeve O mine.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 22, 2012, 01:31 PM:

Is the Blue Hue a Boo Boo?

It sounds like a fantastic movie. I love the original Fantasia and would love to have a print of this. Back a few years ago Derann specifically offered this on the reel at a time installment plan (with six months no interest financing!) and I was willing, but time ran out.

Walt Disney originally expected to subsititute new sections into the original every couple of years and re-release the film. Unfortunately this is the one time it ever really happened.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on August 22, 2012, 03:07 PM:

Osi, you're incorrect about the letterboxing cutting off anything. Buried in my lengthy post above is mention that "Apprectice" is both letterboxed AND pillarboxed in these Fantasia 2000 prints, in other words zoomed out so there is black on all sides. That alone is reason to pursue a different print for standalone use, but at least Disney didn't alter the image composition for the feature, for which this approach is appropriate.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 24, 2012, 01:26 PM:

That's interesting because the only "Fantasia 2000" segment of "Sorcerer's Apprentice" that's a part of this "2000" print is letterboxed on the top and bottom, but not on the left and right sides, (as we actually see on the screenshots on this very post), but it would be interesting to see some screenshots of this super 8 print with black bars on the left and right, as well as the top and bottom.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on October 18, 2012, 01:20 AM:

Here finally are some photos. So this print is 'masked' from the original 35mm source such that even the leaders have frame masking where otherwise the film would be clear, and that masking area is thus always black. Here's what that looks like on the head of Reel 1:

So in the movie, where the 1.85:1 ratio actually matters, the film looks like this (Carnival of the Animals sequence):

Finally, in the Sorcerer's Apprentice you get this when the print mask (the same as letterboxing in video) is combined with side masking (pillarboxing) making a boxing match!:

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on October 18, 2012, 06:42 AM:

It'll be a while before these turn red [Big Grin]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 19, 2012, 12:39 PM:

Bill, I stand corrected, and wonderful screenshots showing the whole frame and sprockets.

You know, the funny thing is, once it starts to fade someday, perhaps the reddening (?) will start to balance out the bluish-ness?

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on October 19, 2012, 01:57 PM:

Just think of all the fun our grandkids will have still trying to make those projectors run!!!

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on January 03, 2018, 02:25 PM:

Just an update here with another photo (and please don't miss the ones above as well) to make the aspect ratio of this presentation clear.

Derann's Super 8mm print was sourced from a 35mm copy or negative, so as mentioned above, these prints conform to the theatrical release. Thus, the print is hard matted to 1.85:1.

To conform to a "common height" principle of theatrical exhibition, the "Sorceror's Apprentice" segment is "window-boxed" to create 1.37:1 within the 1.85:1 space:

Thus, if you size your screen precisely to the area used, "Apprentice" will look great, "pillarboxed" on the screen as intended. However, you wouldn't want to use this as a standalone segment on a normal 4:3 screen without specific zoom compensation.

By the way, I have 5.1 SPDIF wave and stereo wave files available for this feature if anyone is interested. However, I have all 4 reels together on a very full "superspool" and it would take some work to pull the audio for the reels apart, although given some time, I could do that. How the reels are joined together is important as sync conforms precisely to the DVD release, frame accurate.

[ January 09, 2018, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Bill Brandenstein ]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 05, 2018, 10:49 AM:

I had sold my print of Fantasia to Ackshay and even when I had it, i didn't have as part of the feature when i got it, the Sorceror's Apprentice. I was always miffed by that.

It didn't help much that this film had an overall bluish caste to the color, but it didn't hurt the "Rhapsody" portion, as that was largely different shades of blue, period.

Does anybody know as to why the prints of the feature were so blue to begin with? Derann didn't have this problem years before with thier prints. I've seen very bluish prints Bambi as well as Mary Popppins as well and I've always kind of assumed that they were late prints from that last film lab that they used.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on January 05, 2018, 04:27 PM:

unfortunately we only have one part of this feature which is firstly introduced by Steve |Martin followed by,
Ludwig van Beethoven's 'Symphony No. 5 in C minor
Ottorino Respighi's 'Pines of Rome',
I do love the image, i often read about the blue tint but i do like it, we also have the trailer which is also excellent. i saw this on TV once and personally thought this whole blue thing is actually how the film looks. My only problem is finding more parts. [Wink]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 05, 2018, 10:24 PM:

I've never heard an explanation for the bluish cast but I recall hearing soon after the release that every effort was made to minimise this, but it was impossible for the lab to fully eradicate it. It's definitely not the 'usual' Derann bluish prints issue; if anyone was unfortunate enough to buy a print that ALSO had the 'other' bluish tint problem, it would probably look about 99% blue! If Disney still needed to approve a Super 8 print at this stage, them doing so may have implied that they knew that there was an issue with the negative supplied. It would be interesting to know if the US 16mm rental prints had perfect colour.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on January 06, 2018, 08:28 AM:

The only reason I can think of for this not being corrected is that the print stock may have been balanced more to blue that the printing machines inbuilt correction could cope with.

I remember the old Ferrania colour reversal stock could have its colour balance changed with different colour developer times, but suspect new stock would be more stable and that trick couldn't be used.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on January 06, 2018, 09:05 AM:

during next week i will put up a couple of screenshots, although mine, as everyone's, does have the blue tint to it the skin colours at the start all appear to be ok to me. It's certainly nothing like as blue as one of the previous images where the whole thing is blue. Where there seriously many like that? i dont think i would have accepted it like that unless it was a white box special [Wink]

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on January 07, 2018, 01:52 PM:

Bluish tint=poor lab work. It is also possible that thay made the negative from a print using intermediate stock meant to copy interpositives without an orange base. This would cause the negative to produce bluish images automatically. I had a Tom and Jerry cartoon that was originally a Walton negative but the print was very pinkish. I later picked up an older print with perfect color. Simply poor lab work.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 08, 2018, 03:29 AM:

But a factor that makes it seem not entirely down to the lab is that the trailer, released at around the same time, has excellent colour, while EVERY print of the feature is bluish to some degree. Considering the extra scrutiny upon Disney releases, it would seem extraordinary if they couldn't get any of them about right. I'm sure I recall hearing that Derek had said around the time that lab "correction" attempts had minimised the tint as much as possible.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 08, 2018, 12:35 PM:

Quite interesting that the trailer was great color.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on January 09, 2018, 11:22 AM:

Agreed.

Larry may be on to something here if the negative was made on the wrong (not orange) stock.

[ January 09, 2018, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: Bill Brandenstein ]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 09, 2018, 11:48 AM:

It was also interesting to see that Bill's print is on Agfa film stock, as the print I once had was on L.P.P. Bill's print most certainly doesn't look as bluish as mine did.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on January 09, 2018, 04:33 PM:

Oh, that is NOT good. Interesting that the differing print runs don't match. Good to know.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 10, 2018, 12:07 AM:

Around 2003, AGFA stock ceased to be available, but fortunately LPP Super 8 stock returned, so the earlier prints - and probably the majority - would be AGFA. I don't think LPP was more prone to being bluish, but the lab's quality control towards the end seems to have been worse than ever!

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