8mm Forum: Laurel & Hardy

This is topic Laurel & Hardy - "Men O' War" in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on January 31, 2008, 05:54 AM:

Would anybody who has the above film kindly take a few minutes to check the main title on their copy?

I have just bought a 16mm copy which is complete and with no joins. The British Board of Film Censors certificate spells the film as MEN O' WAR, however, the main title on the film is spelt MAN O' WAR.

My Laurel & Hardy books, film references, BBFC and The Internet Movie Database all spell it as the former. It seems strange that the film itself carries a different spelling.

It's not like The Collectors Club whom we recently spoke about who changed their titles completely.

Any ideas. Surely it cannot be a mistake made by Hal Roach?

Maurice

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on January 31, 2008, 10:27 AM:

My super 8 print is fine

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on January 31, 2008, 07:55 PM:

Film Classics, Inc. "re-christened" it to MAN O'WAR. It also changed CHICKENS COME HOME to CHICKEN COME HOME, and in at least one case renamed Mae Busch to May Bush. Undoubtedly, you have a print made from the Film Classics negative.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on February 01, 2008, 03:44 AM:

Why make those changes?

Kev.

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on February 01, 2008, 08:25 PM:

Kevin,

These changes were made in the 1940's when many Hal Roach shorts and features were re-released in the US through Film Classics. There was no rhyme or reason -- the going theory is that it was pure carelessness on the part of Film Classics. You can read the whole history of this topic in "Laurel & Hardy: From the 40's Forward", by Scott MacGallivary. Scott frequents the http://www.16mmfilmtalk.com/ forum and is a friendly guy. He recently provided commentary on the 20th Century Fox L&H box sets here in the states.

In my opinion, Film Classics worst faux-pas was in THE CHIMP. That was one of the last L&H shorts to have an introductory title after the main titles. Theirs read, "- Mr. Laurel never got any further than the monkey cage", followed by "Mr. Hardy's aesthetic nature thrilled at the beauties of circus life -". This is obviously in the wrong order, since the punch line comes before the setup. Blackhawk compounded the error in their release of this film. Interesting thing is, Blackhawk remade all the titles, including the setup and punch line. They actually repeated Film Classics mistake. Totally unbelievable, but true. As you can see, it is still puzzling people today.

[ February 02, 2008, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Tony Stucchio ]

Posted by Gordon Hunter (Member # 679) on February 05, 2008, 08:26 AM:

Hi All,

Just checked my 400' Super 8mm copy of this title.
There is no Film Censor certificate and the main Hal Roach title is "Man O' War". The box is labelled "Men O War" (with no apostrophe.
The film leader has "A BBC Television" film printed on it. Never noticed this before. I purchased this film some years ago possibly via eBay.

Gordon,
Motherwell.
Scotland.

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on February 05, 2008, 07:03 PM:

Is it the original Hal Roach M-G-M titles? I've seen that one and it is MEN O'WAR. Does it start with the L&H Film Classics plaque?

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on February 06, 2008, 05:18 AM:

Tony

The title reads:-

Hal Roach
presents
STAN LAUREL
and
OLIVER HARDY
Distributed by Film Classic Inc
Passed by the National Board of Review

The Laurel and Hardy words are attached to a "screwed" plaque. There is a further line of writing at the bottom which is obscured by a wide white frameline, although I can read that it starts with the word "Copyright."

Maurice

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on February 07, 2008, 07:47 PM:

Yes, that is the famous "Film Classics plaque". If you look a little closer, you will see that it actually says "Nationial [sic] Board of Review." The copyright is always 1933, even if the film was made in another year. It also states the copyright is owned by M-G-M, when it was actually Loews, Inc. Such are the errors made by Film Classics.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 07, 2008, 07:51 PM:

If I may pose a theory, perhaps they changed the titles slightly becauee they feared possible copyright infringement on the original title?

I know that this ploy is sometimes used even today by companies who are selling, shall we say, "marginally legal" copies of films?

It's the only answer that makes sense for a commonly repeated screw-up.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on February 08, 2008, 03:35 AM:

Tony & Osi

Just checked other 16mm bought at same time. THE MUSIC BOX is as you say, copyright 1933, etc. MGM.

If it was their intention to change titles they would have done this with all films surely? .........and stop calling me Shirley.

Just a mistake which nobody noticed at the time, or if they did, it did not worry them. They must have had Hal Roach's agreement for these issues, so there was no point in changing the spelling,

Maurice

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on February 08, 2008, 07:13 PM:

Yes, these were legal re-issues. Title changes were simply mistakes.

You may note that the music under the titles of MEN O'WAR has the buzz-saw sound effects from BUSY BODIES. Yet another Film Classics blunder. And another one that Blackhawk repeated.

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