8mm Forum: Liquid Film Plasticiser

This is topic Liquid Film Plasticiser in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 06, 2008, 12:36 PM:

Further to a previous post here's my experience with this product.

I have an 800ft short which had pretty bad warpage. Takeup and rewinding were a pain in the ass, with some focus shift during projection - no big deal, just annoying.

I emphasise here that the print did NOT smell of VS - that is not to say the print was not in the early stages of VS, but, there was no detectable smell.

Following six weeks treatment with the Plasticiser - takeup is tight with no focus shift - the print looks great.

I'm certainly going to use it on some other prints with the same problem.

Again, let me emphasise my print, as far as I know did not have VS - so whether or not this product can in fact "cure" VS, I cannot say.

Hope some of you may find this of interest.

-Mike

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on April 07, 2008, 03:27 AM:

Michael, What product is this you are talking about and how do you use it?

Thanks, Kev.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 07, 2008, 05:50 AM:

Hi
I posted a link in another post but am unable to find it. Here's some more info:

http://members.optushome.com.au/picturepalace/Vinegar%20Syndrome.html

As I said - I can't vouch for it as a cure for VS - but to eliminate warped or curled prints, it seems to do the trick.

Mike

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on April 07, 2008, 06:29 AM:

How do you apply this to the film and do you have to let each treated section dry first? That link didnt have any instructions and I see that a 25ml bottle will treat about 10 full length 16mm features so obvious only a small amount needs to be applied.

I'm interested as I have a 400ft reel of super 8 b/w which is badly warped and i wondered if this stuff might help. Again this reel does not have VS.

Kev.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 07, 2008, 06:55 AM:

The instructions for use are fairly detailed but, basically the reel (must be metal) is placed in a film can along with 2 drops of the plasticiser per 100ft of film and left for three weeks. Then more plasticiser is placed in the tin for another three weeks.The time of treatment differs from case to case. I treated for 6 weeks followed by a clean with Film Guard and the job was done. I ran the print immediately. There is no drying out to do as this is just plasticising the print and does not wet it.
Again, I must emphasise this is just an overview and full instructions are included with the product.
Peter Goed, the guy whose product it is, is well known in the US forums and easily contactable if you need to.
Incidentally the cost is now $50 and not $40 as stated on the website.
Hope this helps.

-Mike

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on April 07, 2008, 11:07 AM:

Ok that now makes sense. Thanks for the reply, Kev.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 07, 2008, 01:56 PM:

Ok, no problem, Kevin.

Incidentally I don't live too far away from you. So, if you just want to give the product a tryout rather than buying a whole bottle, you're more than welcome.

-Mike

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on April 10, 2008, 06:13 AM:

Thats a thought. Thanks Michael. I think I have your email address so will contact you soon.

Kev.

Posted by Tom A. Pennock (Member # 202) on May 20, 2008, 12:18 PM:

I just contacted Peter to get some of this stuff. Otherwise it's out the window with my Bud and Lou 16mm feature. Sadly the print does not have ONE splice but does have vinegar badly.

--Tom

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on May 20, 2008, 02:13 PM:

Peter has been advertising his product on the 35mm forum but I haven't read any report on how effective it is.
Tom, keep us posted. I have an old Rintintin that's been exiled to the porch because of VS. Now my old neighborood smells like cheap salad dressing... [Big Grin]

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 20, 2008, 02:29 PM:

Hi Jean-Marc,

The first post in this thread reports on my experience with this product.
Six weeks on the print still projects beautifully and takeup is tight.

-Mike

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on May 20, 2008, 03:10 PM:

Yes, Michael, I read it, but it's more VS that concerns me...

Posted by Sam J. Clarke (Member # 1157) on May 20, 2008, 03:18 PM:

I've got a film like the first post so I might try and get some of this and give it a try. [Big Grin]

Would love to know how well it works with VS though.

Sam

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 20, 2008, 03:38 PM:

Yes, I'm looking forward to hearing Toms results with a VS print.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on May 20, 2008, 05:17 PM:

Michael, I have one 400ft reel of Super 8 B/W I need sorting. It has very bad warpage. Would you be up for trying that?

Cheers, Kev.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on May 20, 2008, 09:54 PM:

Michael,
I might give it a try, but as the webpage you mentioned only refers to the benefit regarding VS prints, I wonder if any case is made with regard to assisting with any other problems, such as warped non-VS films?

Posted by Tom A. Pennock (Member # 202) on May 20, 2008, 11:33 PM:

Hi Jean Marc, Michael, Kev, Everyone!

I will give the details when I get some of this stuff from Peter. I would assume then you put the drop's of the solution onto a piece of cloth and place that inside the tin? Instead of on the actual film then? This stuff really interest's me. If I can just get rid of that awful vinegar smell. I like the idea too that the print does not become wet with solution. This is really going to be interesting to see what happens. I definately will keep everyone posted. This has given me some hope!!!

Best To All,

--Tom [Smile]

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 21, 2008, 07:31 AM:

Hi Kevin,
Yes no problem. Whenever you like. Email me at mcoregan(at)aol(dot)com and we can arrange something.

Adrian,
I specifically asked Peter Goed about this and he assured me that for simple warpage without any sign of VS it should work a treat. The print which I've already treated was not badly warped but enough to be a pain in the neck on takeup and rewind. Now its not. Whether this will last we'll have to see. I have another print being treated at the moment which after 6 weeks is still warped. I've placed it back in the can with more LFP and hope for the best.

Tom,
The liquid is placed in the bottom of the can and the print is laid on some spacers in the can with it. Full instructions are included with the bottle.

-Mike

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 21, 2008, 10:32 AM:

There is a lot more in depth discussion with Peter on Mike Coffins forum if any of you are members of that.

www.16mm-films.com

-Mike

[ May 21, 2008, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Michael O'Regan ]

Posted by Tom A. Pennock (Member # 202) on May 24, 2008, 10:46 PM:

Thank's Mike for the explanation of how to use this product.

Best, Tom

Posted by Tom A. Pennock (Member # 202) on June 17, 2008, 08:33 PM:

Hi All:

I received this product from Peter and it's a tiny little bottle but it goes a long way.

MY two LPP color print's of #1. "Maverick" TV and #2. "Fire" TV (Irwin Allen) were so vinegared that I did not think they were worthy of Peter's product. Those two features went in the dumpster. Both looked like they were rejuvenated prints and badly warped too! Not worth my time.

But my "Abbott & Costello Meet The Invisible Man" feature is very worthy of Peter's product and is currently being treated. I just checked it the other day just for a second and already the vinegar smell is gone. I like the smell of this stuff plus the product only goes into the film base so it seem's to get to the problem. I am sold on it so far. It's a 12 step process. I will save Bud and Lou if it's the last thing I do. I placed each 1,600 foot reel in a separate can with nails to elevate it.

I will keep everyone posted on the feature's progress!

All The Best,

--Tom

[ June 21, 2008, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Tom A. Pennock ]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 18, 2008, 09:46 AM:

Sounds good so far Tom. You don't think it's a case of this stuffs smell masking the vinegar smell or isn't it strong enough for that.

Kev.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on June 18, 2008, 01:08 PM:

Yep, the smell is strong enough to mask a vinegar smell. Therefore, if it does that and also relaxes the warp - has it cured VS??

I don't think so!! [Roll Eyes]

For warped film its excellent - although, I am having a lot of difficulty with the print I'm treating at the moment.

-Mike

Posted by Tom A. Pennock (Member # 202) on June 21, 2008, 12:27 AM:

Hi Kev, Michael:

Yes, the product might very well be masking the vinegar smell but having the print smell half way decent in just a few day's is a good sign to me. It might very well be just slowing down the vinegar syndrome breakdown. Whether there is really a cure for this problem is questionable but have faith Mike that this stuff will just slow it down. If I can get a couple more year's out of my A&C feature print I would be happy. This product is like an oil (not applied to the film) and it does go into the film base. It's not really like a topical fix. Don't give up Mike. What are you experiencing at this point with your print? My print is only two week's into the process and I like the fact that the stuff seem's to be deacidifying the film at this point.

Best, Tom [Smile]

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on June 21, 2008, 03:22 AM:

Hi Tommy,

I sent Mike Coffin some pics of the print I am currently treating at 9 weeks. He should be posting them on his site - not sure what the delay is there. It is still terribly warped. It did not smell of vinegar to begin with, but, thats not to say the VS process had not begun.

I'll have to get Mike to hurry along with those pics.

-Mike

Posted by Stewart McSporran (Member # 128) on June 21, 2008, 05:47 AM:

I'm so curious I've ordered bought some of this stuff.

I just picked up the entire Flash Gordon's Trip to Mars on 16mm (albeit cut down to 14 mins per episode) and it smells like a chip shop. However there's no warping and the picture quality is excellent, so it's well worth trying to save it.

Stewart

Posted by Stewart McSporran (Member # 128) on July 01, 2008, 12:12 PM:

The Flash Gordon reels and the plasticiser went into their storage cans at the weekend. I'll be very curious to see what emerges in three weeks.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on July 01, 2008, 02:07 PM:

Stewart,

I wouldn't expect a lot after just three weeks. If the print smells of vinegar then it will need the full 12 weeks at least.

The print which I have just finished treating had no smell of vinegar at all, just badly warped.

After 9 weeks treatment it was just as bad - in fact, I thought it looked worse. I didn't hold out much hope.

Then, following a further 3 weeks treatment, the print emerged like as if it was a different print - warp had disappeared except for maybe in one or two places which I feel will disappear with a tight, reverse, tail-out wind.

So don't expect any quick fix here.

-Mike

Posted by Tom A. Pennock (Member # 202) on July 03, 2008, 02:41 PM:

I agree! This process take's some patience. My Abbott & Costello feature has been checked after three week's and all of the LFP has gone into the print. The vinegar smell is now gone. I just added more drop's of the LFP for another three week's. I wish we could get Peter to offer larger bottles. This stuff is indeed expensive.

--TP

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on July 03, 2008, 02:47 PM:

Hi Tommy,

Yes, but, it should last a while. I have fully treated two reels and used only a fraction of the liquid.

-Mike

Posted by Tom A. Pennock (Member # 202) on July 03, 2008, 02:57 PM:

I think I might very well be using too much because of being anxious. I started out with one drop per 100 feet of footage. Then I think it said to double it.

Good Luck Mike & Please Keep Me Posted!

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