8mm Forum: Ebay Projector

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Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 29, 2009, 01:24 PM:

I'm usually very wary of so-called "new, unused" projectors because, more often than not, it means they've been lying around unused somewhere for years, which is not generally good for them.
However, this looks like a beauty:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mint-ELF-NT1-16mm-Cine-Projector-LIMITED-EDITION_W0QQitemZ350196303507QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Photography_VintagePhotography_VintagePhotoAccessories?hash=item35 0196303507&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

No B&H worm gear problems to worry about.

-Mike

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on April 29, 2009, 05:22 PM:

Looks good. I'm not a total Elf NT expert but I have two very similar to this. Mine are 1982-83. The eBay one has no undertray with mains cutoff switch, which puts it back at that period but he claims it is the latest variant. It also has the round motor belt not the later 'flatworm' one which I believed was the last type on them. I've emailed him for the serial number. My two are in the 40,000s and they certainly went into the 60,000s. I have the earlier 'metal lamphouse' type also at 25,000 odd.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on April 29, 2009, 05:42 PM:

Yep and I have had bad dealings with this guy before with an earlier auction for some film.

When I complained about a problem he was extremely rude [Mad]

I for one wont deal with him again.

Kev.

Posted by David Erskine (Member # 1244) on April 29, 2009, 06:36 PM:

The label in one pic shows Elf bods being at Slough. That closed down around 1987 - so that m/c has to be before that date no matter what the seller implies. Just my happorth! Cheers, David E

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on April 29, 2009, 06:54 PM:

Interesting about the Slough centre. My main pair both have that label. I think the eBay machine is a 'refurbishment' of some kind with a mixture of parts. That's not to say it isn't a reasonable machine but it isn't 'brand new, unused'.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 30, 2009, 02:45 AM:

It'll be interesting to see how much it goes for.

Posted by Paul Spinks (Member # 573) on April 30, 2009, 07:53 AM:

I have bought items from Eddie Smyth in the past and have always had 1st class service and top quality products from him. I would certainly recommend him. If he is selling that projector you can guarantee that it will be in excellent working condition and well worth owning. His 8 years on ebay and 100% feedback after over two thousand transactions confirm that he can be trusted. I have no connection with him other than being a satisfied buyer but I recommend him wholeheartedly.

Paul.

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on April 30, 2009, 01:15 PM:

He emailed me the serial number which is: NT 40299. This would put it with my main pair in 1982-3. But neither of mine have the one-switch rewind. Odd. I haven't purchased a lot from him, only some belts, so on that I couldn't say either way. I would only say, 'if it's brand new where's the box?' I actually did get box and poly sections with one machine and still only paid around £120.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 30, 2009, 02:11 PM:

To be honest, the one-switch rewind is hardly a selling point - how difficult is rewinding the conventional way with the NT-1???

However, the whole machine looks very clean. Has anyone asked the seller where the machine has been for the past few years?
-Mike

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on April 30, 2009, 08:43 PM:

It certainly looks brand new and virtually untouched to me. Signs include a lack of fingerprints, the plastic protective covering still on metal plates, and the speaker lead hasn't been unwound and has a residue indicating prolonged contact with polystyrene.

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on May 01, 2009, 03:49 PM:

New or not, this machine is about 30 years old. Keep that in mind as to plastics getting brittle and polyurtheane problems with belts and rubber hardening.

While heavier than an SNT, the SNT had many improvments.

John

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 01, 2009, 05:23 PM:

Absolutely correct.

Like I said - if it's been sitting around unused for a long time it ain't gonna perform like a brand new anything!!

-Mike

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on May 05, 2009, 01:16 PM:

Anyone seen the price of this! A day to go and touching £400! SO not worth it, in my humble opinion. The serial number on this is 2000 before two I have. I have a third for spares, all three didn't cost that. I'm picky about the cosmetic condition too.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 05, 2009, 01:39 PM:

That price is way too much for that projector IMO.

The thing is that people get taken in by the "Mint, Unused" tags and expect that it is just fresh from the factory.

It does look very nice but.....way too much to spend on a Halogen Eiki.

My tuppence worth.

-Mike

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on May 05, 2009, 01:56 PM:

He told me the serial number but hasn't put that in the listing, I think. He said he was going to. It isn't the last version though it may have lain in storage for years. You can do things differently and get good results: I intentionally went after several in the last couple of years, expecting to have to combine parts etc, but for just under £400 I have a nice pair and a spare.

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on May 06, 2009, 01:06 PM:

Gulp! £480!

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 06, 2009, 01:11 PM:

Unbelievable.
I hope the winner will be very happy with it [Smile]

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on May 06, 2009, 01:51 PM:

I honestly hope so too. If he is a member of this forum I wish him well with it and that it performs well for years. Too much of a gamble for me however...

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on May 06, 2009, 07:06 PM:

Goodness...at the current exchange rate, that would be $726 [Eek!]

That's more than I paid for my XENON Eiki.

Only on EBay...

Claus.

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on May 07, 2009, 02:24 AM:

Probably more than twice what it´s worth. [Big Grin]

Nice presentation video, though! [Smile]

Cheers
Lars

Posted by Simon Wyss (Member # 1569) on May 08, 2009, 10:01 AM:

Friends, these Eiki projectors have a drawback which is overheating. I have an RT-3 (identical except for SEPMAG), and I must say that the air conduction through the lamp house is so uneffective that you can't touch the aperture plate after a half-hour run. That means one cannot rely on film waxing in order to secure good steadyness although one needs to lubricate the film since it runs through an all metal gate. Pity

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 08, 2009, 01:11 PM:

Yeah, I'll agree with the overheating issue. I have an RM-1 and an RT-1 and both get very hot.

BUT....it's never caused me any problems with presentation. Film runs through there very nicely.

-Mike

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on May 08, 2009, 04:51 PM:

Never had the heat problem at the aperture plate/film gate. What lamp are you running? The specs for the original lamps had a dichoric coating which only reflected visible light and let the infrared pass through the back of the reflector.

Then again there were some problems with plastic fans on some runs of the projector. So check the fan to see it's secure, not broken or dirty.

What's more on the Xenon version running the 350 watt lamp I didn't have this problem on the 2000N or 3000N (currently I have a pair of 3500 slot loaders with change over and no problem there as well).

One other thing is that the motor does turn slower on the 50hz systems, but I doubt that would account for that much heat.

John

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 08, 2009, 05:10 PM:

Running ELC Xenophot lamps. Fan seems OK too. I wouldn't even have remarked on it had it not been for the previous post.
As I said, it hasn't been a problem - except maybe if I need to adjust the framing. The framing lever has lost its plastic finger tab and this is almost too hot to touch at times.

-Mike

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on May 08, 2009, 09:17 PM:

"Like I said - if it's been sitting around unused for a long time it ain't gonna perform like a brand new anything!!
-Mike"

I can't entirely agree as about 4 years ago I bought a brand new (still in the original box) mid-1980s Eiki ENT. Apart from my needing to tighten the framing lever after a while, it has performed perfectly. I suspect that it might help when a projector is still sealed in a polythene bag inside the box, as mine was.

I agree that the price of the NT was astonishing, though, considering that you sometimes see as new ones sold for around £100.

[ May 11, 2009, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on May 08, 2009, 09:54 PM:

This surely must be something unique to the RM and RT machines if they get that hot, because neither my regular SSLs nor my Xenon 350 generate anything like that kind of heat.
I can flip the gate out on all of them after a reel and while a little warm to the touch, no problem at all. Never even thought twice about it.
Same goes for moving the framing lever (metal.)
I am glad they don't turn into ovens; I am sure my films appreciate it too [Wink]

Claus.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on May 09, 2009, 02:26 AM:

I've owned a couple of NT2s. Indeed, I had to open the back to increase ventilation quite a few times. Eikis are fun and easy to use machines. Some units can be kind to film, others can be lethal. Although I've switched to Elmos many years ago, I still think that the rewind system on later Eikis is one of the most reliable when storing films on cores.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 09, 2009, 02:44 AM:

" I suspect that it might help when a projector is still sealed in a polythene bag inside the box, as mine was." - Adrian Winchester.

Hi Adrian,

You are, perhaps, correct.
I was referring to the possibility that it may have been lying around in a cupboard somewhere "drying out" ( for want of a better phrase!)

-Mike

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on May 10, 2009, 10:54 AM:

By the time the SSL and SNT were introduced, many of the parts that had failed due to time/materials used in manufacture had been replaced. That's why the SNT and SSL are the best choices, the amps are better, the belts are more reliable and the machines have larger sprockets and handle film better.

I'm wondering if the heat problems on the RM/NT machines which all seem to be reported by countries with 50hz power is due to the motor design on that model. The induction motors speed is controlled by power frequency and I think was designed originally for the Japan market (which is a 100volt service by the way). So for the 50hz markets, a change was made in the pulley diameter to speed up the frame rate (thus the motor turns slower, the fan turns slower and they have to handle the voltage variation for the transformer for the lamp as well).

John

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 10, 2009, 01:57 PM:

That sounds like a reasonable explanation.

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on May 10, 2009, 04:27 PM:

The NTs aren't perfect. Mine do get quite hot. Though the only real shortcoming I find is the racking by moving the aperture not the claw. But I made a decision to standardise on the NT based on availability of parts and feasible home servicing after looking at them ( and a useful phone conversation with Phil Sheard.) The only big scary is the rear sprocket slipping and that's nasty. I check the tightness of that every so often.

The slot loaders may be better but... they're slot loaders and therefore are not real projectors!

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 10, 2009, 05:12 PM:

I had an SL-1 for about two weeks. Didn't like it. Sold it. I like manual threading and nothing else will do it.

-Mike

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on May 11, 2009, 03:09 PM:

Steven, I agree; "rear sprocket slipping" VERY SCARY! [Eek!]

Cheers
Lars

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 11, 2009, 04:39 PM:

Rear sprocket slipping??

Can you describe what happens here? I've never seen this.

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on May 11, 2009, 09:23 PM:

Well, the sprocket wheel/disc seems to be held from moving only by the large Phillips screw in the centre. If this screw, easily accessible of course, isn't tight the 'nasty' is that either the film piles up in the lower loop OR the take up pulls the lower loop flat and the claw then can damage perforations. Much worse. If you have the service manual you can see that under the black cap there is a little locking collar thingy but these can decay. Every so often I check both centre screws are tight - easily done, actually.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on May 12, 2009, 02:34 AM:

Thanks.
I'll be checking before each use from now on.

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