8mm Forum: ELF 2000

This is topic ELF 2000 in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Stuart Bailey (Member # 1706) on November 25, 2009, 03:55 PM:

Hi.Has anyone got one of these projectors please? I have been offered one.I'm just waiting on some details on it,but i thought i would ask for some advise here first please.Any pics of faults/manual. Thank you

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on November 25, 2009, 04:07 PM:

While this is an well made and heavy machine, remember it's age. They date back to the mid to late 1970s. Also remember you're dealing with exotic electronics driving the xenon lamp and this is the old theory of operation, lots of big heavy transformers.

I think you can still get lamps from Superior Quartz in New York, don't know if Eiki still has the Ushio Lamp but they might since its the same lamp used in the later EX3500.

Make sure the lamp strikes on the first spark (more clicks denote an older lamp) and the image is even an flicker free.

The projector itself is the RT/RM design and will produce a good steady image if all is in good repair. You can find a used RT machine for parts, but electronic parts can be a problem especially some of the exotics used in the high voltage striking circuit.

John

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on November 25, 2009, 05:26 PM:

John

Do those comments also apply to the 3500

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on November 25, 2009, 08:40 PM:

The electronics on the 3500 are the latest switching power supply, but checking the lamp is the same procedure. It should strike on the first attempt if new and should be even and flicker free.

If the illumination isn't even, then it might require focusing of the lamp, the instructions are in the manual, but flicker is another indication of lamp age.

The 3500 is a better machine mechanically than the 2000A or 2000N or the 3000N since it's built on the last Eiki design. It's quieter and has a better take-up and sound.

John

Posted by Stuart Bailey (Member # 1706) on November 26, 2009, 09:41 AM:

Thank you John for the info.How about a Elmo 16-cl projector? I haven't seen one for sale but have been told that there very good & quiet.

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on November 26, 2009, 12:17 PM:

Stuart
I have the 16CL and it is indeed a nice projector, quiet and most importantly of all (unlike the 3500) small. What's really nice is the ease of threading and removal of the film being a slot load.

The other one I have is the Bauer but badged as a Rank ALdis. This is an auto thread but has a nice solid feel and seems to be kind on film.

Posted by Stuart Bailey (Member # 1706) on November 26, 2009, 02:50 PM:

Ref the Elf 2000.The person selling it says hes had it from new fires up first time,and has been looked after and he said (in his words) I want £400 for it.Still no pics of it or any ref about delivery or colecting.Do you know where i might find a Elmo 16cl projector? As they are kinder to films and i think they have 3 claw film pull not like the Elf NT1 which is only 2. Has anyone got nice pics they could email please or the user manual? If i find one what should i be on the look for ref faults/cond/workings.Many thanks

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on November 26, 2009, 02:59 PM:

Sounds like the 2000 is in good shape. There were two versions, the A and N (the later being based on the NT the former on the RT) and then the 3000N which was the last before the 3500. The problem to watch for on the 2000/3000 and all the RT/NT is the old polyurtheane round belts. The newer machines use a flat belt and better belts for take-up and rewind. You can change the reel arms on a 2000 to the new type (did that on a telecine NT machine)and Eiki once sold new pulleys for the motor/cam tank to use the flat v belt. Don't know if you can get those anymore.

If you look for Elmos, try and find the CX version. It has a douser, is small, quiet and a good runner. I think all the Elmos like the Eiki are a two tooth claw pull down. The three tooth design is great for damaged film, but if the loop resetter is properly timed on the Eiki to operate during the claw retraction, it'll handle damaged film very well without any additional damage.

John

Posted by frank arnstein (Member # 330) on November 30, 2009, 09:02 AM:

Hi John
How do you time a loop restorer on an Eiki?

As far as I knew, they are triggered by a loss of bottom loop & will then start rotating, driven by the main toothed belt. The loop restorer will stop working when a new bottom loop has been formed & then automatically parks itself as one side of the driven gear has been cut off, causing it to park when it comes to the flat part.
So I cant see how you can time it to the claw position.

Maybe some one here can clear this point up?
dogtor

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on November 30, 2009, 12:09 PM:

Frank,

The loop restorer is started by the loss of the loop which engages a "D" shaped wheel on the inside of the projector. On the older machines, this ran against one of the micarta gears, in later machines on the timing belt.

You need to time the rotation so that it takes place while the claw is retracted and to do this you loosen the screw which holds the rotating part on the front of the machine on its shaft so that as soon as one frame is lost, it will begin to rotate and pull the film down while the claw is retracted and have the new perforation in line for the claw to engage. It can be adjusted easily to start soon or late and you have to watch to make sure that the film is pulled down to position the perf in the right location.

I've seen many mis-timed, usually due to removing and re-installing the cam tank and getting the framing/claw timing off when doing that. Anytime the cam tank is removed, it needs to be checked for framing, claw protrusion and timing of the loop restorer.

(This applies to all Eiki machines except for geneva cross 6120s and 4120s).

John

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 442) on November 30, 2009, 04:39 PM:

FWIW, the Ushio lamps for the 3500 are still available, although I like to support Superior whenever possible. I actually supplied the Ushio model from which they cloned their version, and it performs wonderfully on the switcher type machines.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on December 02, 2009, 12:25 AM:

John, that is interesting, I did not know that the timing was important.

I just assumed as the loop restorer action (one revolution) is relatively slow compared to the claw engaging the film, it just used one of several "openings" that would occur during the loop restorer cycle i.e. the claw disengaging the film.

I have never pulled apart the cam tank section of an Eiki, so I have never upset it, it was just my understanding of how it worked.

You learn something every day!

Posted by Josef Grassmann (Member # 378) on December 04, 2009, 08:46 AM:

I would prefer the Eiki / Elf.
They are quite relaiable and round belts are cheap and will be always available. Eiki / Elf has great light, high density and white colour (more than 5000° Kelvin).
If you prefer to search for Elmo 16CL or 16AL spend special attention on those 5 rubber coated rollers underneath lamphouse.
Very often they are soft, sticky and smearing black deposits on film. They have to be replaced or recoated.

Josef

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