8mm Forum: 16mm info please...

This is topic 16mm info please... in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Paul Bruty (Member # 2538) on November 14, 2011, 08:21 AM:

Don't know anything about 16mm so need to learn the basics. What 16mm format was the usual for home movies?

Regards, Paul. [Smile]

[ November 16, 2011, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: Paul Bruty ]

Posted by Nick Field (Member # 2132) on November 14, 2011, 09:01 AM:

The norm would usually be 16mm double perf.

Posted by Paul Bruty (Member # 2538) on November 14, 2011, 09:43 PM:

Ok, thanks.

Regards, Paul. [Smile]

Posted by Richard C Patchett (Member # 974) on November 15, 2011, 08:18 AM:

Greetings

Manual:
You physically take the film in your hands and thread (lace for you folks in the UK) the film through the entire film path. You open every sprocket guard, open the film gate, set the tension of the film around the sound drum, and loop film around the rollers as the film exits the projector. All projectors from the very beginning of the development of projectors up until around 1962 were manually threaded. This is good because the projector and film path were less cluttered plus you had to know something about film so you wouldn't destroy either the film or projector. Film can be stopped at any point in the reel and unthreaded easily if you don't wish to see the entire movie.

Auto Load:
You flip a lever and feed film into an entryway. The film threads itself through the entire film path. When the film exits the projector you give the film a slight "tug" to trigger the release linkage and take the machine out of the automatic thread mode. The numerous linkages and guidance hardware are complicated. That's why auto load machines are the most expensive to purchase brand new. Film can be stopped at any point in the reel and manually unthreaded with a little difficulty. By the way, AUTOLOAD is a registered trademark for Bell & Howell's line of automatic threading projectors. Bell and Howell invented automatic threading projectors in late 1962 with the introduction of the famous model 552 and its baby brother the model 545. Film leader (the first 3 feet for sure) must be in good condition and free of sticky tape, folds, kinks, torn holes, etc.

Slot Load:
You flip a master "loading lever" and the entire film path opens up. Then you just sort of 'lay' the film in the slot. Then flip the master lever into the run position and show your movie. Film can be stopped at any point and unthreaded easily. Some machines allow you to actually rewind the film while still in the film path. There is usually some safety interlock switches preventing rewinding if any of the sprockets and claw is still engaged with the film or damage would result! These machines are also complicated internally, difficult to clean, and can be problematic. Slot load and channel load are the same terms. By the way, Graflex invented the slot load system in 1966.

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on November 15, 2011, 01:05 PM:

And if it was double perf, it was silent film. Most 16mm sound film will be optical sound and will have single perf.

Posted by Paul Bruty (Member # 2538) on November 16, 2011, 05:34 AM:

Thanks guys, starting to get a handle on 16mm.

Regards, Paul. [Smile]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on November 16, 2011, 01:02 PM:

This might sound a silly question, but why does double perf 16mm exist, considering that it clearly isn't needed during projection? Was it simply a matter of scaling down 35mm? And do any silent 16mm projectors have double sprockets that engage with both sets?

Posted by Nick Field (Member # 2132) on November 16, 2011, 01:57 PM:

I think a some of the small domestic 16mm cameras used a double claw one each side of the film hence the double perfs.

Posted by Paul Bruty (Member # 2538) on November 17, 2011, 12:00 AM:

Am I to understand that ALL 16mm projectors have sprocket teeth and claws only on one side of the film track?

At this time I have not even seen a 16mm projector!!!

Paul [Smile]

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on November 17, 2011, 04:54 AM:

Hi,

double perf was introduced in 1923. At this time some cameras/projectors have been using both perforations - or only the ones on the left or the ones on the right side. In most cases amateur devices are only using one side while professional devices (e.g. high speed cameras, cameras used for producing cartoons, ...) are using both sides.

Jörg

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on November 17, 2011, 08:46 AM:

Many early 16mm projectors had teeth on both sides of sprockets, but only one claw. I personally have never seen a two claw projector but there may have been some made. It certainly was not the norm. Projectors that are sound projectors have teeth on just one side of the sprockets as the sound strip is along the other side of the film. Naturally, these would only have one claw. There were 16mm projectors that did not have sound but had only one set of teeth on the sprockets. You could play a sound print on these without damaging the print but of course you would not have sound.
You can see some 16mm projectors, sound and silent that are part of my collection here:
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z65/Cap30920/Projector%20Collection/?albumview=slideshow

Posted by Paul Bruty (Member # 2538) on December 02, 2011, 03:47 AM:

Is there a 16mm version of this site?

http://www.super8data.com/

Regards, Paul. [Smile]

Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on December 02, 2011, 04:25 AM:

Not to the same sort of extent, but there are many with projector lists.
for example.. http://www.paulivester.com/films/projector/bh_models.htm

Posted by Paul Bruty (Member # 2538) on December 02, 2011, 05:47 AM:

Thanks Martin.

Aussie Paul. [Smile]

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