8mm Forum: 16mm Frame Issue HELP

This is topic 16mm Frame Issue HELP in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Brannon Carty (Member # 2582) on June 03, 2012, 05:43 PM:

Hi,

I was projecting a film today and noticed it wasn't projecting just ONE frame at a time. Everything was mixed up causing the film to look very odd. It seemed to be projecting a snipet of each frame, not the entire thing. Any ideas what is wrong? It also looks like the frames are blended.

My projector is a Bell Howell Filmosound 550.

I've got a film showing this weekend and gotta get this issue fixed quick.

Here is a photo of what it looks like:

Thanks,
Brannon

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on June 04, 2012, 08:23 AM:

Brannon, it *could* be a case of ghosting (hard to tell without seeing the projector in action). That means that somehow, your pull-down claw is no longer in sync with the blocking of the gate by the shutter. I'm no expert with the B&H 550 but if you can disconnect power, open the machine and see if you can advance the film manually (there's sometimes a knob either at the back or at the front for that matter) you will be able to check it by yourself. Remove the lens and lamp, get a small light source and shine it where the regular lamp is usually located. Look down the lens barrel towards the gate with a film loaded. Advance film manually. If you can see the film being pulled down before or after your view is being blocked by the shutter, then that is your problem. You need to unfastened the shutter from its axle, turn it a fraction, refasten it and see if its blocking the view of the pulled down action. Do this as many times as necessary until you find the proper alignment.

In hope your shuttle (the whole assay that gives its up and down movement to the claw) or the claw itself aren't damaged. Clean the claw area as something (dust, solidified grease, piece of broken film...) might have got stuck in there, causing the inconvenience.
You can have a look at the service manual (see download section on the left) but it's not very helpful.

Posted by Brannon Carty (Member # 2582) on June 04, 2012, 02:10 PM:

I did a test video for anyone who wants to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLhTq88SiMs&feature=youtu.be

RIGHT before I shot this, the film was playing perfectly, now it all messed up again. I'm so confused right now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J08dA4KgblM&feature=youtu.be

It also has garbled sound for some reason. This day has been just fantastic [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on June 04, 2012, 02:44 PM:

Have you checked pressure plate in the gate?

Posted by Brannon Carty (Member # 2582) on June 04, 2012, 03:05 PM:

How do I do that Allan? I'm still new to this stuff. [Wink]

ALSO, I do believe I know what caused it. There is a switch that goes from 18fps to 24fps, and it's not supposed to be switched while it's off. Being the moron I am, I switched it without reading. After that, this issue occurred. Is this fixable?

Can I just push the shutter 'thing' down to a position to where it will start looking normal again?

Sorry for all these questions, I've just got to make sure this thing works before the weekend.

[ June 04, 2012, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Brannon Carty ]

Posted by John Pechulis (Member # 620) on June 04, 2012, 05:53 PM:

First thing I notice between clips is the second clip the image is upside down.

It looks as though the pulldown claw is not engaging the film, allowing the film to slip through the gate almost continuously.

Without knowing if the second clip was captured upside down or not, I'd say the film is not loaded correctly and the sprocket holes are on the wrong side of the gate, which would explain why the claw is not engaging the film and why the film is doing what you see.

JP

Posted by Brannon Carty (Member # 2582) on June 04, 2012, 06:06 PM:

Even when I loaded a different film the correct way (autoload), it still does this.

I didn't look to see which end I put in first, which explains why it is upside down.

Should this area be closed down to get a tighter hold on the film?

-EDIT-
After numerous hours of testing, it is not the film that is causing the problem. It is the shuttle which is out-of-sync as Jean-Marc pointed out previously.

Now I just need to find a way to fix this..

[ June 04, 2012, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Brannon Carty ]

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on June 05, 2012, 06:42 AM:

Hello Brannon,just a word of warning before we start taking things
to pieces,are you loading the film with the sprocket holes nearest you?
The image that is on the film should be upside down.
The feed spool should be rotating clockwise.
The film should be base side in(shiney) emulsion side (dull) out
Have you checked that the auto thread is releasing the guides
when take up engages,if not usually a light tug on the film
coming through for take up should ensure that.
There must be adequate loop at the top of the gate and also at the bottom.
If all these criteria are met,then remove the back of the machine and check that all belts are on the spindles and the
relative cycles switch is engaged.Do this with no power on.
Best of luck.

Posted by Brannon Carty (Member # 2582) on June 05, 2012, 07:03 AM:

I've never had a little bit of a loop through the gates, I'll give it a try and see what happens.

-EDIT-

It didn't seem to help much. Any other ideas?

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on June 05, 2012, 09:06 AM:

Brannon,you must have a loop of film above and below the film
gate for the projector to work,otherwise as I suspect,looking at
your picture you are dragging the film through the projector
and doing no good to either.The picture shows the film is snug
against the auto guide and it should be between said guide and
the upper loop former,so forming the desired loop that enables
the projector to show successive frames,otherwise the result is
a blurred picture and strained sprocket holes.Can you thread
the projector,does the auto thread work?Does the auto loop
former work,that is positioned below the picture gate and it
should operate if the loop is lost.You must check these points
before attempting anything else.i do not recommend you start
to dismantle any parts of this projector if you do not have the
skills.

Posted by Brannon Carty (Member # 2582) on June 05, 2012, 01:19 PM:

You were right Hugh. I double checked my loading and I saw that there one little claw that was not catching the film and BOOM it works now!

Thanks a lot!

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on June 05, 2012, 07:52 PM:

You're more than welcome Brannon and thankyou.A little bit of
advice if you want to give any shows,get to know your projector,
try lacing it up by hand and unlacing,with a piece of scrap film.
This can be very usefull if the autothreading plays up.
Get yourself a 1/2 inch or 1 inch paintbrush (new) and wrap
some tape around the metal ferrule,so it does not scratch
anything,and use it as a cleaning brush for your projector,to clean
any debris from the gate and guides between reels.Also a little
tip,give your machine a good ten minutes after showing film
time to cool before moving it as this gives your lamp a longer
life.

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