8mm Forum: Simple transfer with Canon T3i and Pageant TV-12M6

This is topic Simple transfer with Canon T3i and Pageant TV-12M6 - rolling bar, advice? in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Robert Stewart (Member # 3692) on May 04, 2013, 03:35 PM:

Hi all.

I'm looking to do a 'quick & dirty' telecine transfer from an archive of 16mm films with my T3i. Just projecting the image on a screen (using a Kodak Pageant TV-12M6 telecine model) and then recording the projected image directly.

Unfortunately, with the T3i I'm getting the "rolling bar" effect - faint dark bars slowly rolling up the screen. It was my impression that the Pageant TV models are specifically designed to prevent that. Changing the camera's framerate, shutter speed, iso, etc, can reduce the severity a bit but doesn't seem to eliminate the bars far as I can tell.

The folks I purchased this projector from suggested it may be an issue with the camera. I did test it with a couple other cheaper cameras and indeed there was no rolling bar present - though their images were far inferior to the T3i and it's possible not sharp enough to reveal the bar (for example, tried a Vixia HF R42, which was comparatively atrocious).

So, my questions are - anyone else tried basic telecine with Canon DSLRs? Any tips for fixing the above effect? Or at least anyone know why these bars would be visible only on this particular model of camera, considering framerate is the same across all of them?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 04, 2013, 04:28 PM:

Do you have your camera video set to 60fps?

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on May 04, 2013, 04:46 PM:

My ST-1200HD MO has a switch 50/60Hz ... Any such thing on the Pageant? If it's set to 50 and you record at 60, that would make this happen I think

Posted by Robert Stewart (Member # 3692) on May 04, 2013, 07:36 PM:

Thanks for the responses guys!

Janice - I've tried at 1280x720 60fps, and at 1920x1080 24fps & 30fps. All result in the rolling bar.

Vidar - There's no toggle as far as I'm aware, though the projector's front-plate does say "120 VOLTS 60 Hz" so I'm going to assume it's running at 60.

Here's a snapshot of the projector: http://i.imgur.com/O7xKz7N.jpg

And here's a quick clip of the bar effect, the faintest I've been able to achieve but still noticeable especially after you've been watching for a while (ignore the rest of the quality issues, just recorded this to exhibit the problem): http://videobam.com/RnuwB

Any thoughts?

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 04, 2013, 08:59 PM:

I don't know if you bought the projector from The Projector Workshop...but since they did the telecine mod on the machine...they should know what setting you will need to sychronize with your camera. Maybe there is a speed adjustment inside the projector...maybe needs new builts?

Posted by Robert Stewart (Member # 3692) on May 04, 2013, 09:17 PM:

They've been mystified as well. I should note that the Pageant "TV" model was originally designed with telecine capability, far as I know Projector Workshop just serviced it rather than doing a full mod.

There's no speed adjustment. However I did use a variac to slow the speed down slightly, though this had zero effect on the rolling bar.

Again it seems to be a camera-specific issue, as a couple others I've borrowed recorded the image just fine without the distortion. But I'd *really* like to get it working properly with my camera, as otherwise the picture is much much better than the others I tried.

Posted by Jack Crowe (Member # 3650) on May 14, 2013, 10:41 AM:

Hi Robert,

Have you tried Magic Lantern?
Its pretty easy to install on your Camera/card,
You can then adjust the frame rate, In the FPS Override setting,
I've had some good results, you have to play a bit to get it just right,

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on May 14, 2013, 10:42 PM:

Does your camera have a syncro-scan setting?

Posted by Claude Lyneis (Member # 3761) on July 21, 2013, 12:29 AM:

Can you set the camera at 24 fps and 1/24 shutter speed? That worked well for me with an EIKI 3 blade and a Canon XA10 camcorder.

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