This is topic Dupes in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.
To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001087
Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on March 05, 2014, 10:54 AM:
How can one tell a 16mm dupe?
Posted by Paul Mason (Member # 4015) on March 05, 2014, 11:17 AM:
Jim, Do you mean "unoffical" or "pirate" copies. There are two main types of dupes 1) a 16mm print from a dupe negative created from original prints and 2) a reversal print made directly from the original print without an intermediate negative. The first gives inferior image and sound results compared to the original. the second is better but has increased image contrast which may be unacceptable. Duping by contact printing can sometimes be spotted by sprocket hole shadows in the copy from the original.
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on March 05, 2014, 02:38 PM:
A dupe can usually be recognised by the emulsion being on the other side than is usual, this is because in the printing of a dupe the emulsion on each print is contact-to-contact.
This is why such a copy often has an inferior look to it.
Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on March 05, 2014, 02:49 PM:
There are ways to tell the difference between an original print and a dupe.
One way is the examination of printed in splices. A splice which goes across pic and track indicates a dupe.
However, there could of course be a splice which does not go across the track but which got printed into a dupe. Therefore, this can't be an absolute indicator of an original.
Incidentally, the word "dupe" printed into a lab leader would most likely indicate a dupe negative - not a dupe print.
Other giveaways such as the wrong title printed into a leader - such as The Ape Man for King Kong (I'm just making these up for the sake of illustration) - would indicate a dupe, in an effort to avoid detection in the old days.
EMKA leader indicating most likely an original MCA television print.
The best way though is simply experience.
Posted by Paul Mason (Member # 4015) on March 06, 2014, 03:19 AM:
Contact copying doesn't always mean a dupe since original 16mm prints were sometimes made from a special 16mm intermediate or internegative to avoid using the precious master for release printing when a large number of prints were required- say 10 or more.
Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on March 06, 2014, 09:30 AM:
upon looking at it closer the ending has no blackhawk tail the film barely fades out then goes to clear leader and has bad contrast as well I will have to reproject it on a different projector I used a trv to watch it on tv and those have awful contrast controls.
Posted by Alexander Vandeputte (Member # 1803) on March 07, 2014, 02:17 AM:
In my book, a dupe means: any print that, regardless of which printing method was used, originates from a positive projection print (instead of proper pre print material) Dupes can be reversal prints or can be made off a negative that itself was derived from a projection print.
Therefore dupes usually have higher contrast and less resolution.
So basically a dupe is a projection print made off another projection print, a copy of a copy.
Posted by Paul Mason (Member # 4015) on March 12, 2014, 11:04 AM:
I completely agree. A projection print has high contrast so that it looks natural to the eye when projected. If this is copied or duplicated on high contrast print film the contrast increases unacceptably. It is possible to copy a projection film using low contrast material with reasonable results as used to be done when Kodachrome originals were copied with low contrast Ektachrome Commercial film (a masking technique was also required). The casual duper would regard this as too expensive.
Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on March 14, 2014, 09:44 AM:
the film just looks like it has more contrast compared to my super 8 print of the same title.
Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2