8mm Forum: Is this a stereo 16MM print?

This is topic Is this a stereo 16MM print? in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 03, 2014, 12:40 PM:

I saw this auction for a 16MM print of XANADU, and my attention was drawn to the optical sound track, which seems to have TWO white stripes to it!

Does this mean that the print is stereo optical sound? I don't know enough about optical sound in general (beyond super 8 optical prints) do judge.

Here's the auction ...

[URL=http://www.ebay.com/itm/16mm-XANADU-Feature-Film-UNCUT-Olivia-Newton-John-Musical-Adapted-Score/111305138668?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSIC .FITP]http://www.ebay.com/itm/16mm-XANADU-Feature-Film-UNCUT-Olivia-Newton-John-Musical-Adapted-Score/111305138668?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSI C.FITP[/URL] %26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20643%26meid%3D5947677574089517520%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D9209%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D281103281937

By the way, the seller used the worst backing to take screenshots. I'm betting that the color is better than what the person shows.

Posted by Fabrizio Mosca (Member # 142) on April 03, 2014, 12:49 PM:

From the first picture it seems a mono print (both tracks are equal). I have some doubts on the second picture, but it's too out of focus to understand if it's a stereo one (the two tracks should be different in size and shape)

Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on April 03, 2014, 01:23 PM:

This is a normal mono track. It's a Bilateral Variable Area track.

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on April 03, 2014, 02:31 PM:

Agree it looks like a standard 16mm optical track take a look at this image

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 03, 2014, 10:03 PM:

I never heard about 16mm stereo printe before.

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on April 04, 2014, 12:02 AM:

Hi Osi,

And that 's right Martin, that's also called a Dual Variable Area soundtrack, it's the most common type of soundtrack on Eastman stock, both tracks are identical, and not stereo. Here is a link to Paul Ivester's guide to Identifying film stock and soundtracks.

http://www.paulivester.com/films/filmstock/guide.htm

I'm also posting the picture from his site here so you can see what the track in question is.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on April 04, 2014, 09:40 AM:

There is talk on other Forums that the American Army used to have 16mm films printed for their sole use with stereo sound tracks.
Does anybody have any more information on this?

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on April 04, 2014, 10:48 AM:

Of course it can be stereo: the twin track makes it possible, provided you use the proper audio master material, to strike stereo sound 16 mm prints; in fact the became quite common in Italy during the 1980's.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 04, 2014, 11:23 AM:

Maurizio, do you know models of 16 mm projectors ?

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on April 04, 2014, 05:19 PM:

There should be some models from Eiki, included (at least) a xenon model. Sampaolofilm, the major Italian 16 mm print distributor, used to list and sell these along with some other models from Cinemec. I recall at some point I got a brochure with some models many years ago but I should find it in my files now because I don't remember the actual numbers. Actually I've never collected 16, but back in those times, I found it exciting the fact an Italian company was still dealing with 16 mm and some warehouse Super 8 prints to clear.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 04, 2014, 05:35 PM:

Thanks for this interesting answer, Maurizio.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on April 05, 2014, 10:13 AM:

No prob! You're certain welcome.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 05, 2014, 01:05 PM:

Gerald, many thanks! [Smile]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 06, 2014, 04:18 PM:

Its interesting that Super 8 leaped over 16mm in the sound department, with high fideleity magnetic stereo sound. Although not always realised to its full potential, this too me is the great advantage that super 8 has over 16mm, as stereo sound adds tremendous impact to film presentations, particularly musicals.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 06, 2014, 05:21 PM:

Except perhaps in its very early days, 16mm was never primarily for the home-viewing market. TV was the primary use and stereo sound would not have made much sense.

Super 8, on the other hand, was intended for the hobbyist and it made sense to develop sound capabilities as it did.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 06, 2014, 06:12 PM:

Michael, 16mm has indeed always been a gauge difficult to classified. Its cost, the quality and the weight of the machines makes it a semi-professionnal gauge but the availability of black and white silent digests of colour sound films and some "small" projectors shows us that amateurs used also 16mm. Tv widely used 16mm but there was (and still is ?) another market for it.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 07, 2014, 12:40 PM:

quote:
...but the availability of black and white silent digests of colour sound films and some "small" projectors shows us that amateurs used also 16mm.

Yes, definitely. I know there were all those Blackhawk releases for example. You are correct Dominique. But it was never as big a home movie format as Super 8, maybe due to it's expense. I don't know for sure but I would say that once Super 8 took off, 16mm home sales dropped off.
Anyone know any more on this.

Posted by Paul Mason (Member # 4015) on April 08, 2014, 09:55 AM:

I don't know about outside the UK but in January 1963 Amateur Movie Maker magazines said in its annual projector guide that film libraries were reporting a steep decline in non-sound 16mm film hire. At the same time there were only three 16mm silent projectors on the market- B & H 613H, Specto 8/16mm and the Specto Analysing projector. It seems the decline in 16mm for home use predates the arrival of Super 8.

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