8mm Forum: Eiki/Elf lists?

This is topic Eiki/Elf lists? in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on February 22, 2016, 07:37 PM:

Paul Ivester has a pretty comprehensive history of Bell & Howell projectors on his site, but does anyone know of an eiki - elf list, why the differing names, and is it true that they had a hand in making the later B & H projectors?
I'm sure these topics have been covered in these columns in the past but not found.

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on March 05, 2016, 02:00 PM:

I believe 'ELF' was only used in the UK. Everywhere else they were EIKI. No idea why. I went to the trouble of obtaining EIKI branded lamp house covers to replace my two machines ones because under a bit of heat the stupid plastic ELF sticker peels off. The EIKI logos are a solid plastic piece.

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on March 05, 2016, 06:27 PM:

I notice that the last bell and howells, made by eiki had similar auto lace up mechanisms.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 05, 2016, 06:50 PM:

I heard that projectors sold under the name of Elf were not all Eiki. Steven's message may mean that this statment is not correct and that Elf was the British name of Eiki. If anyone has informations about that...

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on March 05, 2016, 10:46 PM:

I've been mostly using Eikis in the UK for decades but I haven't personally come across an Elf that wasn't basically an Eiki, so that would surprise me if it were true. However, there are certain minor differences between some models sold in different countries - e.g. I have a SSL-2 that I obtained from Germany and this has an on/off switch and the inferior 2 pin din connection in relation to the speaker output on the projector and the speaker input on the speaker, which presumably was the norm in Germany.

I've never really understood why the name Eiki was considered a problem in the UK, considering it wasn't in the USA. In fact the Eiki decals on later models were smart metal ones, and any Elf sticker could simply be peeled off to reveal it!

Eiki had more than "a hand" in making certain later B&H projectors from about the mid-1980s, as they were entirely made by Eiki. The only difference with the Eiki equivalents is what they are called and the colour, which in most (but not all cases) is different. Instead of the gold/brownish colours of later Eikis, the B&H badged equivalents are black/grey. My favourite projector is the B&H version of the Eiki ENT, which is a cool-looking projector in Eiki colours, but in my opinion even smarter in black/grey. I've occasionally had an audience member at a public show seeing the decal saying "Bell+Howell Filmosound" and saying something like "I used to have one of those", so I explain that it isn't actually the projector that they think it is! If you look at the 'small print' on the back plate or on the instruction manual, it's made perfectly clear that the projector was manufactured by Eiki Industrial.

I believe the explanation is that B&H had exclusive rights to distribute projectors to certain markets in the USA (not sure about elsewhere) but could not for some reason manufacture the projectors, so they came to an arrangement with Eiki and took a cut of the profits. I expect buyers had to go to Eiki for any servicing or spares but I can't be certain of that. I'd be interested to know if B&H were still selling any of their own projectors in this period. I wonder when they sold the last 'true' B&H projectors?

[ March 06, 2016, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on March 06, 2016, 04:35 AM:

Thanks for the info, a sort of picture emerging.
Going back to Paul Ivester's bell and howell list, he appears to suggest that the TQ 1,2 and 3 models were all made in Japan for the UK market.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on March 06, 2016, 05:43 PM:

I don't know much about the B&H TQ models, but I doubt if Eiki were involved in making any. Considering how clear Eiki's input was to the 'rebadged' projectors I've mentioned, I would imagine that any involvement in TQs would be equally clear. But the fact that the ones I've referred to are Eikis in everythng other than name and colour seems to indicate that Eiki were not interested in actually taking on the manufacture of previous B&H models. Some of the schools, etc, receiving a new 'B&H' around 1986 must have been surprised by how radical the redesign of their 'Filmosound!' appeared to be!

[ March 07, 2016, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on March 07, 2016, 04:40 AM:

Yes, my TQ111 1695 is badged as made in Japan, but no mention of Eiki.
I looked through the instruction book and could only find American references, then realised it was for models 2585, 2590 and 2592, all US models apparently.
Refering to your last paragraph, about recieving a new BH, what a nice thought! I've only ever bought second (or third) hand, even back in the day!

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on March 07, 2016, 09:24 AM:

Re Duplicate topic Douglas, when I started it, it appeared twice for some reason. Possibly my error.

Posted by Paul Mason (Member # 4015) on March 07, 2016, 10:01 AM:

The explanation for the Bell & Howell badged Eiki projectors is that Eiki bought Bell & Howell's audio visual division in about 1986. Bell & Howell ceased manufacture of 16mm projectors in Chicago and Japan and Eiki sold their machines as both Eikis and Bell & Howells

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