8mm Forum: Best Bell and Howell of all times ?

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Posted by Niels Peter Buch (Member # 3757) on March 04, 2016, 08:47 AM:

Hello.
What are experience concerning Bell and Howell 16 mm projectors.
Which model should I look for.
My thoughts are : A model with autoload, Halogen lamp 250 watt and the ones free of trouble with bad worm gears !
Does this machine excist or am I naiv ?
Perhaps model TQM 2685, 2692 or 2698 ?

Kind regards.

[ March 10, 2016, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: Niels Peter Buch ]

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 04, 2016, 12:02 PM:

Niels
I'm afraid all the TQ3 machines can suffer from cracking worm gears but I have a 1698 which is perfect at the moment but who knows how long it may last. If you really want a Bell & Howell look for one that has had the original worm replaced. Apart from the original worm gear problem they are a great machine.
I should have said that all TQ Bell & Howells can be affected this way and also some of the previous models.

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on March 04, 2016, 02:59 PM:

the best projector was the belland howell model 644 manual thread optical and magnetic playback and record with a 25 watt amp the daddy of them all I do have a few for sale in ex cond I have a 655 and 658

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 04, 2016, 03:12 PM:

Yes David but unless I am mistaken these had the dreaded worm gear too.

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on March 04, 2016, 04:13 PM:

I have one my father bought new over 35 years ago and been used 100s of times and gear is just as good as it was when fitted

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 04, 2016, 04:38 PM:

Yep, mine is good too. But no one can guarantee how long it will last or that it will never fail. The only solution is to fit a solid nylon replacement. I seem to remember that you claim to have undertaken this repair several times?

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on March 04, 2016, 04:49 PM:

yes fitted many a gear but don't do them now my father bought loads of spares when bell and howell seized trading over 300 gears belts motors etc

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 05, 2016, 02:29 AM:

Well I am in awe of anyone who can do that repair. I'm told that it involves completely stripping the machine to get to the worm gear and also, more importantly, making crucial precision adjustments after fitting the replacement to ensure correct film projection. And that is just for a non animation gear. The fitting of an animation gear is more complicated I'm told. I've often thought about buying an old cheap machine to try and do it myself, but I fear that it would be beyond me.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 05, 2016, 03:13 AM:

I am struggling to understand what possible timing adjustments would be necessary if the angular position of the worm gear was matched to the old one at the time of refit Terry, when meshing with the spur gear?

Similar to how all cam shaft and crankshaft pulleys have to be pinned before fitting a timing belt on a car.

Surely the worm gear is fixed to the shaft by a key or a grub screw or celloc pin?

Are these already a part that Edwin has reproduced by 3d printing methods?

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on March 05, 2016, 04:24 AM:

fitting the gear is not the problem but you need to get the timing gear right and the claw set up otherwise gear can seized ,I know a lot of people who fitted gears that they had bought on ebay and fitted them perfect and within less than a minute gear seized and had to be replaced again has a lot of the gears that were going around were not machined right when made ,all the ones I had were genuine bell and howell gears I still have about 20 left but they are not for sale

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 05, 2016, 04:29 AM:

Cheers David, top explanation there thanks! [Smile]

Posted by Richard C Patchett (Member # 974) on March 05, 2016, 10:04 AM:

Greetings
Worm Gear Replacement

Worm gear replacement is major overhaul. To change it requires EXTENSIVE disassembly of the mechanism (once it's removed from the projector of course!). Once you start dissembling the mechanism you lose all the critical adjustments which require the special (expensive) Bell & Howell tools & jigs to readjust/realign. The new gears are colored black (non Still) to distinguish them from the old style plastic

It takes at least 4 to 6 hours to open / replace that worm gear / and to REASSEMBLE your B&H correctly.

Average cost worm gear replacement job costs around $300 per machine plus parts.

One could replace only the cracked worm gear, but it is almost the farthest thing into the projector. Half the labor is expended just accessing it. And, the projector probably wouldn't be happy and might have wow in sound and picture instability, because sprocket spindles may be dry of lubrication, a sprocket gear may be warped, sound head needs attention, shuttle needs adjustment, uneven take up drive, etc., etc.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 05, 2016, 10:13 AM:

Even more detailed Richard thanks!

Posted by Richard C Patchett (Member # 974) on March 05, 2016, 10:22 AM:

Greetings Andrew
Glad to be of service
RC

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 05, 2016, 10:26 AM:

[Smile]

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on March 05, 2016, 10:33 AM:

Much as I liked the TQ3 machines and used them in the 80s period of my collecting, I wouldn't recommend them now at all. For exactly the reasons discussed. I threw my last one in the bin about four years ago and gave away the lenses and that was that. Eiki and Elmo now. Sad but true.

Posted by Clyde Miles (Member # 4032) on March 05, 2016, 10:52 AM:

the very last ones they made had good worm gears. problem was cured by making internal core smaller thus thickening the nylon gear.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 05, 2016, 11:15 AM:

Still struggling Andrew?? Reminds me of the time I went to a garden machinery shop to buy a petrol engined mower. When the salesman told me the price I said 'That's ridiculous! I can buy a good second hand car for that.' To which he replied 'Ah yes. But you can't mow the lawn with a second hand car!' There's no answer to that really. In the same context you can't project a film with a car. They are different animals and so are the repairs. [Big Grin]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 05, 2016, 01:49 PM:

No I get it now Terry, but I reckon it's doable. [Smile]

We love a gritty challenge don't we just ha ha? [Smile]

Posted by Douglas Warren (Member # 1047) on March 07, 2016, 06:52 AM:

I think I'll stick to my Kodak Pageants.I had a Bell & Howell 2585 briefly when I first got interested in the 16 mm side of film collecting 6 months ago. Bought it not knowing any better about the dreaded worm gear issue. A shame about that really as they seem to be very nice machines otherwise.

Posted by Paul Mason (Member # 4015) on March 07, 2016, 07:27 AM:

Clearly everyone has their favourite machines. As for the Bell & Howells still working well on the original worm gear I would say don't be afraid of them and keep using them while you can. Don't worry just inspect the worm at least once a year.

Posted by Niels Peter Buch (Member # 3757) on March 07, 2016, 03:43 PM:

Thank you all, for some very interesting inputs !
ill maybe find a nice cheap Bell and Howell projector some day.
And throw me self away in a major overhaul.
Succes or failure !

Eitherway ill learn a bit more everytime and have a great time " nursing" this fine piece of machinery
.
Kind regards

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on March 20, 2016, 12:33 PM:

I'm going to use my 2585 and my Eiki SL-0 until something goes and then I'm sending them to Richard Patchett to fix. 😉 As long as Richard is still in the "Fix-It" business I'm not worried.

Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on March 21, 2016, 06:04 AM:

I have two B/H 1695 machines (turquoise models). They were both serviced and had the worm gear changed. I had one converted from the EMM/EKS lamp to a more easily obtainable A1/259. All my shows are pubic and they've never let me down. One is slightly noiser than the other but I've found them great projectors.

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