8mm Forum: Filmguard affects sound tracks :/?

This is topic Filmguard affects sound tracks :/? in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Elyas Tesfaye (Member # 3356) on March 20, 2016, 12:08 PM:

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone on here has had an experience with muffled sound post cleaning a print with FG as well... Also, I have noticed this with some prints, and not all... The change is as if one's playing a silent print with the sprocket holes over the sound track pick up, and the sound at the same time. It becomes way more pronounced when using an eternal speaker when I have screenings in a bigger venue.

In my limited sound track know how, I have noticed two different tracks (The older one that look like IQ test figures and the ones with lines parallel to the upper and lower borders in a frame). Maybe either one is affected:\?

A newb seeking the pros' assistance,
Cheers,
Elyas

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on March 20, 2016, 03:05 PM:

Hi. I've not noticed that but I have had prints with ridiculously soft brown stripe that seemed to wipe off easily. Sorry I can't help

Posted by Elyas Tesfaye (Member # 3356) on March 21, 2016, 12:11 PM:

Hi Tony,

thanks for sharing, and that's helping, sir [Smile]

!!!

Best,
Elyas

Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on March 21, 2016, 01:12 PM:

I use Cresclean and never had any adverse effects.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 21, 2016, 01:52 PM:

If anything, I find filmguard to be one of only a handful cleaners that is perfectly safe to use on magnetic stripes....even pasted one's!

Trouble is, some pasted stripes are so poorly bonded to begin with, especially on the extremely thin and delicate balance side, they can come away from the polyester at times just by using an air blower brush or a dry cloth.

On these type of prints, no cleaner would help.

If the stripe is bonded well to begin with, I have never heard any deterioration of the soundtrack from using filmguard so far.

[ March 21, 2016, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 21, 2016, 02:19 PM:

Hello Elyas. Have you had problems only with 16 mm prints ? I have only few 16 mm or 9,5 striped films, most of them have an optical soundtrack. But with super 8, I have never had trouble with Filmguard regarding a lower sound quality after having put the product on a film. I readed on a stripping machine instruction book that films with a magnetic stripe should not be cleaned with anything else than what is sold in France Under the reference "essence C" (I found it in Paris, not in Belgium, I bought it as it is advised to clean a film with that before stripping it). But that instruction book was printed before Filmguard was on the market. I guess "new" products are compatible with magnetic stripes. A last thing, some films have a stripe that leaves a strong brwon colour on the cloth when Filmguard (and probably any other product) is used (Film Offices's films have that specificity) but so far I haven't noticed it affected the quality of the sound.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 21, 2016, 03:01 PM:

I've also used filmguard many times with Super 8mm optical prints with no ill effects.

Posted by Ray Faiola (Member # 758) on March 23, 2016, 10:08 AM:

The only possibility is that still-wet Filmguard may cause the optical lens, hot from the exciter lamp, to FOG. If this happens, open the optical hatch while the film is running and fan the area where the optical lens is. This should dissipate the fogging.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on March 23, 2016, 10:29 AM:

If anything it helps...I have actually used film guard to transfer some old news film that had a bit of sticky shed syndrome.....Seriously it's one of the only cleaners that is both safe and helpful for mag striped film..If your stripe is coming off its probably not because of the film guard and would have happened regardless.....I run all of my Super 8 films through one of Roy Neil film o clean with film guard when I watch them...

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on March 23, 2016, 04:01 PM:

The one sound problem I've had using FilmGuard was over-applying to a shrunken print, making it too slippery to track correctly on the drum. But I think to be that bad you'd also have some picture ghosting from over-travel, depending on your gate pressure.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 23, 2016, 04:43 PM:

Same here Bill, the boys on here said to simply gently wipe off the excess, its worked perfectly, all films cleaned with FG and no more problems. [Wink]

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on April 16, 2016, 04:23 PM:

For the record the 16mm optical tracks are either Western Electric type that is variable density and looks almost like a barcode generally. The other is variable area and is an RCA format. One or two squigly clear areas with black surrounding. I find the way to remember it is RCA, A for area. ( Though of course it is Radio Corporation of America.)

Posted by Kenneth Horan (Member # 3) on April 16, 2016, 11:07 PM:

Quote: For the record the 16mm optical tracks are either Western Electric type that is variable density and looks almost like a barcode generally. The other is variable area and is an RCA format. One or two squigly clear areas with black surrounding. I find the way to remember it is RCA, A for area. ( Though of course it is Radio Corporation of America.)

The dual bilateral variable area track you describe is Westrex.

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on April 17, 2016, 09:52 AM:

How kind of you to correct me without elaborating. I was trying to simplify it for the original poster. The thread was about cleaning in fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound-on-film

If you feel Wikipedia is wrong please correct them.

Certainly density fell by the wayside and everything became area as I understand it. ( I thought only later stereo 35mm twin track was a Western Electric idea. The question was about 16mm. ) RCA invented the 'area' approach so for simplicity I have always referred to area or density - which look distinctly different - as being RCA or Western - they invented it. But feel free to give many links and by all means let's spend hours on it.

Elyas, I was trying to give you a rule of thumb on what those tracks are called. I think 'area' or 'density' optical tracks is a fair way to refer to the differences on a 16mm print. On FilmGuard, I know that too much can cause problems but can be wiped off with a further pass with a clean cloth.

Posted by Doug Thompson (Member # 3381) on May 18, 2016, 07:35 PM:

Elyas,

In order to better speculate as to the cause, it would be helpful to know a few particulars.

1)Does the objectionable sound go away when the picture lamp is turned off? (Some projectors don`t allow running with the picture lamp off. To get around that, one would have to wait for the lamp to cool, remove it from the projector, and resume playback.)

2)Is it more noticeable on variable density tracks, variable area, or both. (If these are unfamiliar terms, scroll down to the bottom of this page.)

3)Is the film stock acetate or polyester (estar, mylar?)

I have some ideas, but I don`t want to make any suggestions until we can narrow it down a little.

Doug

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