8mm Forum: Help with scope Bracket NT1 & STD Lens

This is topic Help with scope Bracket NT1 & STD Lens in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 10, 2017, 06:36 AM:

Hello all, without wishing to sound thick, i know how to project a scope film, (been doing it on 8mm for years),
I would like to ask for help to do the same on my Elf NT1 please.
We have 2 scope Len's. The excellent Sankor 16C and the Isco Cottington.
This is where i have a problem, on the elf i never had the standard Lens, it went years ago, what i use now is the Super Sankor F1.5 25mm. Its a great lens when showing non scope films, but (as pointed out to me by a very helpful fellow collector recently), when i placed a scope lens in front of it i get an image so much bigger than any screen i have, so there are two things i now need, but,(as we all say) i dont want to spend a fortune here.
I need an original standard lens that came supplied with the NT1 but also require a scope bracket preferably to take the larger Sankor 16C. The brackets we have are not suited to this machine, the free standing bracket i have for the Isco cottington doesn't allow the lens to get anywhere near close enough to the projector lens no matter how i adjust it or move it around.

I am so near yet so far away to being able to watch the feature of Kidnapped i just bought from Mr Guest. Cant wait [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 10, 2017, 10:03 AM:

Sorry Tom, being completely alien to 16mm I cannot help with the lens or bracket you seek, but the scope lens you speak of that you own,..Is it not an Isco Gottingen lens? (First o of Gottingen should have Umlaut btw but i dont have any on my keypad sorry.)

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on April 10, 2017, 10:26 AM:

Until you get your 2" lens just shorten your throw until the picture does fit the screen.
A swing-up bracket is available for scope projection on the Elf. They are a bit of a fiddle to fit, but once done, they stay in position and just lift up and down as required.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELF-EIKI-16mm-projector-Anamorphic-Scope-lens-bra cket-mount-/232280702195

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 10, 2017, 11:46 AM:

Hi all,
Andy, yes it is that Isco [Big Grin]

Maurice, thank you for that link, i did spot that one but cant work out what size lens barrel that one will take. Ideally its the larger Sankor lens we want to use.
Does one need to drill into the body to fit this or are they already there? I cant seem to work this out [Confused]

I seem to be getting a bit daft in my middle age [Wink]

I shall contact the seller to find out what size lens barrel it takes.Thank you for the answers so far [Wink]

Posted by Neil Massey (Member # 5081) on April 10, 2017, 12:11 PM:

Hi Tom
I have the Elf NT2 with the scope bracket and the Sankor 16C anamorphic lens which I use with a Sankor F1.5 38mm lens which fits as well as the Elf 50mm standard lens. The bracket is very easy to fit and as I recall the holes are predrilled for it; I just checked my copy for the original brochure the NT range (over 30 years old)which always shows the bracket fitted.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on April 10, 2017, 02:13 PM:

It was a long time ago that I fitted my brackets so my thoughts may be a little rusty.

The two holes are already there on the projector and covered with screw heads to hide the holes if they are not going to be used.
The bracket comes with screws.
The existing projector screws are removed showing the holes.
The back is opened/taken off to gain access.
The bracket has holes already tapped.
The new screws are passed through the back into the bracket and tightened.
That's it.

When not in used the bracket hangs down. In use it comes up. There is a screw to level the bracket in position. The fixing clamp for the anamorphic does take various O/D lenses.

I suggest you get in touch with the seller to ascertain what size lenses will fit.

I may be slightly wrong, but an owner will soon suss out how it all works.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 10, 2017, 02:28 PM:

Thank you again everyone.great stuff

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 10, 2017, 02:36 PM:

Hope you get it all working the way you want it soon Tom.
Hopefully someone here, will have an original Elf NT1 lens for you to gain the image size you require with your chosen anamorphic lens Tom. [Wink]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 10, 2017, 03:53 PM:

Cheers Andy.

Posted by David Fouracre (Member # 3883) on April 11, 2017, 03:28 AM:

Tom,

I have an Eiki Lens 50mm for your projector, which you can have for £12.00 plus postage. Let me know if you require it.

Regards
David

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 11, 2017, 06:44 AM:

PM Sent David, Thank you

Posted by David Fouracre (Member # 3883) on April 11, 2017, 08:29 AM:

PM sent Tom

David

Posted by David Fouracre (Member # 3883) on April 12, 2017, 03:28 AM:

Tom,

Your lens in on the way.
Sent this morning via First class signed-for delivery.
Please advise safe delivery and my best wishes for Easter.

David

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on April 12, 2017, 06:57 PM:

the ideal lens you need is a 38mm which will give you a decent picture a 50mm is not good realy as picture will be small and a 25mm will be to big the one I use is 38mm with a good picture size and little light lost when showing in scope from about 18ft

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 13, 2017, 05:05 PM:

Thanks for the info David, looks like i may end up with too big and too small. [Frown]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on April 14, 2017, 10:27 PM:

You can't really go wrong buying a 50mm lens for such good price - it's likely to be useful sooner or later. If you presenrt shows elsewhere, you might also find it useful to have a Eiki zoom converter, which will screw on the front of any Eiki lens, although this will protude too far for use with the standard scope bracket.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 15, 2017, 01:35 AM:

thank you Adrian and evetone. Very good info for me.
I am loving this 16mm. I forgot how many titles you can buy and at such good prices.(at the moment) [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 15, 2017, 01:43 AM:

That's great news Tom all around. I know you were becoming a little disheartened by some of the outrageous prices fetched for much of the "Better" stuff on eight, so I am pleased you're finally actually finding things of interest to you and within a comfortable budget again.

Tell me Tom, as a user of both Super8mm film predominately, and now 16mm to accompany it occasionally, what do you see as the pluses and minuses between the two gauges in a fair and open mindset, and in YOUR OWN opinion, why do you feel Super 8mm can still fetch the incredibly high prices we are currently seeing, in stark contrast often to the 16mm counterpart?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 15, 2017, 02:55 PM:

Maybe not then??

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 18, 2017, 03:28 PM:

Hey Andy, sorry bud i didn't spot your reply.
Defiantly getting dismayed with some of the prices but also,
This may sound a bit feeble but here goes,
We have had the NT1 sat around for years with a small handful of films. We then said, right stick to 8 and get shot of this.
One evening we decided before listing to pop on All the Jazz with Roy Schieder, it all worked and just looking at those huge reels going around and seeing the outstanding sharpness of the film made me think, well, i'll keep it and maybe build up a small collection of maybe up to a maximum of 20 films as even with my own film room i dont want it to take over.

All that said and done, i am Not finished with super 8 by a long shot, in fact i an now looking to sell off a few small bits in order to ensure we only buy 16mm films with other film sales.

On a disappointing note, after spending £40, (well cheesed off), on the scope bracket i received it today and the F****** thing is too small for our Sankor 16D. GREAT!!!!! Doubly pissed off as i sent a mail to ask the seller if it would fit and we were told it would fit all the Sankor C & D Len's. He was wrong.

I will have to keep it as we will use it on the Elf with the smaller Isco Gottingen. Looking back it appears to be my error as,to be fair, i told the seller we had the C series but in actual fact its a D. An expensive error [Frown]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 18, 2017, 04:54 PM:

That is a stroke of bad luck there Tom! I hope you can make use of it with your Isco lens, or failing that, at least get your money back from it by perhaps selling it on.
Here's hoping anyhow. [Smile]

I am pleased you're happy with your recent 16mm purchases and I'm sure when you get your scope lens tailored perfectly for your cinema room, you'll have the best of all three worlds then! 😊😊

Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on April 19, 2017, 02:34 AM:

Tom. the elf scope bracket takes the 16c size scope lens perfectly. the 16d is more suited for the bell&howell. your right the seller was wrong in saying 16d would fit. well at least you now have your scope bracket. i use one permanantly attached to my projector with a 38mm lens for showing scope films. as David Guest said earlier the ideal set-up in a smaller room is a 38mm lens with the 16c scope lens. this will give you the best size picture.as you will find out using the 50mm lens the picture will be smaller.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 19, 2017, 01:57 PM:

Cheers Paul, to be fair the seller has said for me to send it back and he does have the larger size bracket. He did also mention, (as did Phil @ CHC) that the larger 16D lens is rare. We have had this one in family for years and also when we bought it a professional camera repair shop took the whole thing apart and cleaned inside right through. The glass came up like new.

So without making myself sound like a dumb ass, (and bearing in mind i dont want to go spending endlessly), am i better off using the smaller Isco Cottingen lens rather than the Sankor 16D?
The only 2 projector Len's i have now are the 50mm and the 25mm. Looking at these two scope Len's side by side they are rather different, Slightly [Big Grin]

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on April 19, 2017, 04:35 PM:

Hello Tom

I'm pleased to see you are almost there and the bracket seller is sending you the correct one for the Sankor 16D.

Personally I think you will find the Sankor 16D better for your needs in every way. The Isco model you have was designed for Super 8 projection rather than 16mm and the larger rear lens diameter of the 16D will mean less vignetting with short throw lenses.

As others have said you really do need a 38mm lens as using the 25mm with a scope lens will give you too wide a picture and vignetting. Make sure you keep the 25mm one as they are great for 4:3 shows and are quite expensive to buy these days often selling for £100 to £150.

Looking forward to hearing from you when you are fully set up for your 16mm 'scope shows.

Kevin

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 19, 2017, 05:59 PM:

Very much agreed. I also had that Isco lens once and it is really only suitable for Super 8mm use and fixed focal length even at that, which is always a compromise.

I was therefore very happy to upgrade to a Kowa 8-Z as soon as the opportunity arose.
I now just need to get the adapter ring finally sorted that once again, our friend Kevin here kindly provided!

I know diddly squat regarding 16mm lenses, scope or otherwise, but what I have picked up upon just by being in the hobby is the
Sankor 16D is a purposeful designed 16mm Scope Projection lens.
It isn't designed for 8mm use any more than an 8-Z is intended for 16mm use.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 20, 2017, 01:28 AM:

Thank you again everyone. Kevin, yes i did purchase the 25 for the 4:3 shows, it now gives me a full size screen image ,(pretty much the same as my 8mm), from the same short distance as my super 8 showings. It is a very good lens and as you say, while not cheap it was far from expensive when i look at what some Len's go for these days.
Next question, anyone got a 38mm lens for sale?

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on April 20, 2017, 02:22 AM:

Tom
The usual Elf scope bracket is designed to stay in position when not in use, the side cover fits as usual.
It may be possible that the larger bracket may not do this.

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