8mm Forum: New to the hobby- questions about what's out there?

This is topic New to the hobby- questions about what's out there? in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Donald Cape Jr. (Member # 6221) on December 23, 2017, 02:25 PM:

Hello,

I'm new to the hobby and am curious about how much 16mm stuff is actually out there. Like TV programs, are there thousands of copies of Andy Griffith Season 3 episode 9 in collections or hundreds or 10-50 or what? And feature movies, are the ones for sale mostly from TV stations and edited and if so how many of each movie are out there in circulation or collections. As an example I saw 2 copies of White Christmas on Ebay and they went for over 300 dollars. How many copies of White Christmas may actually be in existence? Hundreds? Just curious, as the hobby has me looking for cool movies I saw as a kid. I have a hard time though thinking about parting with 200 plus bucks for a movie.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on December 23, 2017, 03:21 PM:

Hi Don,

Welcome to the forum!

Geography is your friend here: twice a year down near Cape May there is a weekend entirely devoted to 8 and 16mm film. You can come see what's available for yourself. (You are a little closer than I am and I haven't missed one in at least 5 years.)

I've seen a lot of old television on 16mm there. I remember once there was an episode of "Gilligan's Island", the one where the Castaways find a movie camera and film on the island and make their own fmovie trying to get rescued (-and of course they don't!). The quality was stunning: very sharp with really great color. If I had a 16mm machine at that point I would have bought it for sure. There are a lot of features and shorts available too. Friday night we usually have a feature and very often it's been 16mm.

(Just look in "Upcoming Film Conventions" under "CineSea".)

Upcoming Film Conventions and Events

Generally speaking in this hobby when you find a budget you can live with and stick within it, you'll do just fine. Collecting film has never threatened to make me broke, and I've done just fine regardless. Maybe you can have less, but appreciate it more.

Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on December 23, 2017, 04:32 PM:

There certainly are plenty of Laurel and Hardys out there! I'm a big fan and can certainly recommend some for you. The prices for them have gone down a lot in recent years.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on December 23, 2017, 09:43 PM:

Donald

As you live in the USA you will find TV series episodes available at quite reasonable prices on 16mm, most of which were originally filmed on 16mm. However, most of the older colour episodes have now lost their full colours due to fade.

It's possible that some of the more rare episodes in black & white may reach higher prices particularly if they feature well known guest stars, such as on the Lucy Shows, etc.

Buying ex-cinema feature films can often be a problem as some films were edited to fit into TV time slots. And even un-edited prints will have many cue dots every time a commercial break is imminent.

But having said that, original prints from often movie stars' collections will be very good prints, with often prices to reflect this.

I hope you enjoy your film collecting.

Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on December 24, 2017, 12:56 PM:

Donald, a warm welcome. As you have many questions I would suggest that you take up Steve's suggestion and go to any conventions you are able to get to. Talking to fellow enthusiasts and dealers can give you a much wider view than struggling with (often) inexplicable descriptions of equipment and systems.

Posted by Rich Malmsten (Member # 5787) on December 24, 2017, 02:55 PM:

Hi Donald, with exception of mass produced prints for sale to consumers by companies like Blackhawk and Castle, you'll find the 16mm market to be very wide but not very deep. Almost everything ever telecast on TV is available on 16mm: movies, TV shows, and more, it's all there. Say you want an episode of MASH: there's almost always at least one for sale on eBay. But if you want a particular episode, you could wait a very long time for that one special episode to be for sale (if ever). Then if you're fussy about the color quality, you could wait for a long, long time indeed (or maybe you'll find it tomorrow). Sometimes it's just a matter of luck.

Posted by Daniel D. Teoli Jr. (Member # 6043) on December 24, 2017, 07:47 PM:

16mm films are relatively inexpensive to collect, at least the type of film I collect. Once in a while one will go for $300 or so for 400 feet. But the majority can be bought for $25 to $75 per 400 - 600 foot reel.

Now, I don't collect old movies, trailers or commercials. So I can't comment on them. I collect old stags and non-stag historical / doc films.

Posted by Donald Cape Jr. (Member # 6221) on December 25, 2017, 06:32 AM:

Thanks for the comments, so can I assume that most TV shows from the 50s to the 80s at least, there are 16mm prints somewhere. I have to do some digging, but I'm also curious how many of there are? Would it be a ratio of how many TV stations were online at the time the TV show was being broadcast? Did the TV show studio send out copies to each TV station? How to determine actual rarity? Based on what I've seen on Ebay, it looks like either 95% is still in peoples collections or there may be only a few copies of TV series floating around.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on December 25, 2017, 10:24 AM:

Donald
You have to be patient. The best shows are quickly snapped up.
Over the years I have collected the following TV shows from the US:-
Love That Bob
Beverly Hillbillies
Gale Storm
Liberace
My Little Margie
Sgt Bilko
I Love Lucy
Mary Tyler Moore
Ozzie & Harriet
Andy Griffith
I Married Joan
Amos 'And Andy
Green Acres
Abbott & Costello
Heart Of The Matter
Flintstones
Trapper John MD
Fantasy Island
Daniel Boone
Happy Days Again
Phyllis Diller
Patti Page
Topper
Star Performance
I must add that they are not for sale!

Posted by Rich Malmsten (Member # 5787) on December 25, 2017, 01:30 PM:

Donald, you were wondering how many prints might have be struck of any particular TV episode to meet the needs of syndication. Here's my ball park swag and I'm going to assume the show was popular enough to be widely syndicated; a less popular show would have even fewer prints struck. This is the pre-cable TV days when film was used to broadcast the shows.

In the U.S. there are (in round numbers) 200 television markets, so if every market had a station that contracted to broadcast reruns of a show, say Star Trek, (and only 1 station was allowed per market) the studio would strike 200 prints of each episode, one for each station/market. A typical syndication contract is 5 years. After 5 years a new contract is signed and new prints provided.

So even for a highly syndicated show, an average of only 40 prints per year of each episode would be struck. To me, that's not many. Even if the show was popular for 20 years, that's only 400 prints (of each episode) that were ever struck - ever. Then subtract those destroyed for whatever reason, and the number of existing prints becomes very small.

And you say you want a print without scratches on low fade stick? That number has to be very small. That's why it can take years for your favorite episode to come up for sale. The studios were printing just a small number compared to those mass produced films Blackhawk sold.

That said, I have several TV episodes on low fade stock that I got for a good price on ebay. Patience and some luck are part of our hobby.

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