8mm Forum: Can anyone help me identify these 16mm prints.

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Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 08, 2018, 01:58 PM:

I recently bought these 16mm Laurel & Hardy prints. Can anyone help me as to who may have printed them.

(1) THE MUSIC BOX. It has a British Board of Film Censors tag at the start.

It is printed on thin AGFA film stock. It has been printed much to light and although it does have some slight wash out in places it could be much better if printed slightly more darker. It might be a dupe from another positive print.

The sound is very low and hissy and noisy too.

( 2 ) BELOW ZERO again starts with a BBFC tag. Its on Kodak stock and was printed in 1977. I checked the film date code.

The sound on the first half is also very low and crackly too. but improves on the second half after a reel change. The print is a bit dark in places.

If anyone here can help me identify who may have printed them or if they are bootlegs please let me know.

Cheers the Noo !

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on March 09, 2018, 06:20 AM:

Watsofilms?

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 09, 2018, 06:51 AM:

Maurice did Watsofilms print these Laurel and Hardy copies ?

I know that one BELOW ZERO is an ex film library print from the Wallace Heaton Film Library London as the film inspection sheet and label is stuck to the inside the plastic film can.

Interestingly the last inspection date was on 13/02/1976 . After that I can only assume it was withdrawn. I see that on 22/01/1975 that the film soundtrack was reported as having some damage. Which it still has and possibly caused by faulty lacing or sprocket teeth run off.

Do you know if Mountain Films would have printed these at this time ? [Smile]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on March 09, 2018, 07:32 AM:

John (?) Watson of Watsofilms printed a lot of 16mm whether legal or not, as did J.G. Kirkham of Kirkham Film Services Ltd in Warrington.
Both of these had a vast 16mm library as well as selling new & second-hand prints (often the same!).
These are suggestions, possibly now very difficult to know for sure who printed them.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 11, 2018, 07:10 AM:

Maurice thanks for your help with this.

I take it that I may safely assume that some of those Laurel and Hardy titles that have the BBFC certificate may have been printed by either Watsofilms, Kirkham or even Mountain Films.

[Smile]

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 11, 2018, 07:15 AM:

Just thinking about some of the worst dupes I've seen David - back in the day they could even have been printed on someone's converted projector run back to back through the gate - see what side the emulsion is on it may give you a clue - if facing the lamp it may be a dupe of this sort.

Kevin

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 11, 2018, 08:18 AM:

Kevin cheers for that information.

I am happy to report they are not dupes of that kind. The emulsion is not facing the lamp. [Smile]

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on March 11, 2018, 08:41 AM:

They could be Janus prints - Mountain released 8mm, that I have, also several 200' L&H cut-downs, don't think they released 16 - Shorty

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on March 11, 2018, 11:10 AM:

David

These are British prints as they have a Censor's Certificate. They were probably hired from a bona-fide library expressively for the production of masters.

John King Films of Brighton had an extensive library of Laurel & Hardy shorts. In the company's 16mm film hire catalogue there was a photo of Laurel & Hardy examining a 16mm print with the caption "Mr.John King with Laurel & Hardy on the occasion of their recent visit to the library".

This must have been during their second UK tour in 1952 when they were appearing at the Brighton Hippodrome in July of that year.

I don't recall John King selling such films, only hiring them out, and they would have had Censor Certificates as often mobile exhibitors would borrow films from the library for public exhibition.

As regards your thoughts of Mountain distributing 16mm you may be thinking of Walton who did, for a relatively short time, sell 16mm sound films, including comedies.

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on March 11, 2018, 12:40 PM:

In some of my old Movie Makers Portland/Mountain Films do advertise them in 16mm. If I get the chance I will scan them, but it will be a couple of weeks before I get time.

Posted by Gary Sayers (Member # 5545) on March 11, 2018, 12:58 PM:

As far as I recall, the only Laurel and Hardy sound shorts on Super 8 that Mountain Films released were cut-downs from some of the features that they sold - 'Babes in Toyland', 'Way out West', 'Block-Heads', 'A Chump at Oxford', 'Saps at Sea' and 'The Flying Deuces'.

All the other shorts were from their silent era, such as 'Two Tars' and 'Habeas Corpus', etc. They also released 'Unaccustomed as we are', which was missing it's original sound, and 'Berth Marks' as silent versions.

Don't remember any 16mm in their lists (although there may have been and I just ignored them at the time) but I would have thought they would be the same titles as the Super 8 releases.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 14, 2018, 07:37 AM:

Thanks for all the replies so far folks. Very informative and enlightening.

If any one else can answer my query please go on and do so.

Cheers ! [Smile]

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