8mm Forum: Wanted: Worm gears for Bell & Howell 16mm

This is topic Wanted: Worm gears for Bell & Howell 16mm in forum 16mm equipment for sale/trade at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Josef Grassmann (Member # 378) on May 26, 2007, 06:13 AM:

I am looking for some worms (both types) made from SOLID plastic or brass in good working condition.
They could still being built in the mechanical unit (not complete projector, due to high shipping costs)
Please send me information together with approx. price and location (country) by personel mail.
Many thanks in advance,

Josef Grassmann

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on May 28, 2007, 06:07 AM:

Try Urbanski in the US. Scroll down to "OTHER SUPPLY SPECIALS & MISCELLANEOUS OFFERINGS" where you will find them listed.

Kev.

Posted by Ian John (Member # 507) on May 30, 2007, 06:55 PM:

I beleive Phil Sheard at Classic Home Cinema has them. Read the "About Us" page on his site (right-hand side of page). Here's the link:

http://www.classichomecinema.co.uk/

Hope it's of some help to you.

Regards.
Ian.

Posted by Josef Grassmann (Member # 378) on June 15, 2007, 04:53 PM:

many thanks to the nice men, for help.
I will contact both companies.
Thanks
Josef Grassmann

Posted by Josef Grassmann (Member # 378) on June 18, 2007, 11:45 AM:

It seems, that it is more difficult than expected.
Classic Home Cinema and Urbanki Film sell only the
"non still version of worm gear" made from solid plastic.
Urbanski Film has the "still version worm gear" available, but it is the old B&H made (metal core with white plastic thread moulded around).
As it is quite expensive to replace the worm gear, nobody would accept that we replace it with the same old type.
So we will look to get them manufactured for us from solid plastic or brass.
The still version of worm gear sold at Ebay is the worst type, too (with the white plastic moulded around).

Posted by Ian John (Member # 507) on June 18, 2007, 02:17 PM:

Hi Josef,

You can still fit the "Non-Still" worm gear to a projector that has the "Still" button function. The only difference between the two worm gears are, the "Still" worm has a clutch at one end of it, and the non-still worm does not.

If you fit the Non-Still worm gear to your projector, you will have to disconect the servo linkage bar out of the machine, or disconect the lead from the still/animation button which will prevent the "still" function from working, then your machine will run the same as the projectors without the Still function.

Not many people use the "Still" function anyway, so if you don't
mind loosing that function, then this is the best route to take. Hope you get it sorted.

Regards.
Ian. UK

Posted by Josef Grassmann (Member # 378) on June 23, 2007, 02:49 PM:

Hello Ian,
you are 100% right, there is no daubt at all.
I am aware that a lot of repair men work in accordance with your proposal.
But I´ll sell the projector after replacement of worm gear and full inspection.
If it has no still function, (german) people tend to start discussion on the missing still function. So they ask for lower price as it is not in the original "state".
Therefore:
I got it in the original state and I´ll sell it in original state.
And there is no discussion on short comings, missing features.

Regards
Josef

Posted by Richard C Patchett (Member # 974) on December 07, 2007, 02:37 PM:

Greetings
Just a note of infor On worm gears.

Now as to the B&H # 012666 Worm Gear assembly, it fits all in the 500-1500-2500 series that do not have a still picture feature or a Directamotion feature. Here's a few models I can think of off the top of my head that do use the 012666 gear:

566, 567, 1568, 535, 540, 1535, 1540, 561 (telecine), 562 (telecine), 2685 (UK market), 2585, 1595, 1575, 2575, 2580.

There's probably some more that I haven't listed.

I do have one in stock B&H non still # 012666 NEW For $25.00 plus mailing

Posted by Josef Grassmann (Member # 378) on December 29, 2007, 06:02 AM:

Thanks to Richard for your kind offer.
Due to the fact that shipping costs to Germany are rather expensive we would buy 10-12 worm gears in one step.
The customs ask for 5-6% duty on the amount we paid (price for goods + shipping/packing costs) plus 19% VAT.
So one worm gear 25 US$ + 30 US$ for shipping (Urbanski Film ask 30 US$ for shipping) = 55$ + 6% duty =58.30$ + 19%VAT = 69.38 $ + 8$ for payment transfer brings the price up to 77.38 US$ for one worm gear.
Even if you would ask 12$ for shipping, one worm gear would cost us 54.67$.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 442) on January 09, 2008, 12:25 PM:

KMR Electronics of Santa Anna, California (they're on the web) bought all the spares from B&H and I believe manufactures new "non still" worm gears of stable black material. They might be worth a try.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 11, 2008, 10:43 AM:

Josef,

I bought a new worm gear from Urbanski about 4 Months a go and it was the new Dark Grey plastic with an aluminum centre. Certainly not like the original B&H gear with brass centre and white brittle plastic.
It was the non still version. See Pic below:

Kev.

[ January 12, 2008, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on January 13, 2008, 09:13 AM:

Kev

The original Bell & Howell worms had an alloy centre.

Maurice

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 14, 2008, 04:51 AM:

Maybe that was the case but the originals had that white plastic which went brittle. This Grey plastic doesnt feel the same and I dont think will breakdown in the same way.

Kev.

Posted by Thomas Powys-Keck (Member # 691) on February 09, 2008, 03:18 PM:

Lees Cameras in London England supply the new worm gear,they are the solid type,very good.Regards Tom. [Smile]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on February 10, 2008, 04:03 AM:

Please note that some Bell & Howell gears were made from solid black neoprene, i.e. without the alloy centre.

I suggest that you steer very clear of this type as a large batch of these cause trouble by expanding if a long film is being shown.

I speak from personal knowledge. "Yes," said the seller, "it's got a new black worm fitted." I used it for many short films with no hint of trouble until one day I was requested to do an hour long film show for a local Over 65s Club.

To keep things moving I joined all the films up on a 2200' spool. After about 50 minutes the sound started wowing and as I opened the door of the TQIII I could see the two sound stabilisers dipping up and down. I thought that perhaps the drive belt was slipping due to the weight of the take-up spool so I removed it and placed it on an adjoining chair.

Only ten minutes to go so I could afford to let the film run on the floor to keep the show going. And then HORROR, the Bell & Howell slowed right down, and then STOPPED! (With the lamp on.)

Eventually I learnt of this large batch which had been discovered in Edric's service department by the semi-resident engineer. But when he finally retired all the Bell & Howell parts were sold off, including the faulty worms which nobody knew about. This is how they got back into the system. They are fine for a short run but will expand too much when they get really hot.

My service engineer removed the worm and turned down the overall diameter and also reduced the depth of the groove. He learnt the exact dimensions by applying a hair dryer to a worm in a test rig.

So. Beware.

Maurice

Posted by David Michael Leugers (Member # 166) on April 04, 2008, 03:23 PM:

It is my understanding that the original B+H worm gears (white plastic with metal hub) are actually OK, but that the wrong lube was applied which caused the plastic to harden and crack. I have some brand new originals that I had planned to use to repair a nice 2585 I own with a cracked worm gear. Anyone know for sure about the lube and what should I use?

David M. Leugers

Posted by Simon McConway (Member # 219) on April 04, 2008, 04:57 PM:

I have serviced and re-wormed many a B & H right from the TQI up to the later TQIII machines. This is thanks to a B & H engineer I found living near me. He gave me full training, and I can complete a machine within about 3-4 hours. The worms I have always fitted are the none animation ones; much easier to fit! Just recently I completed a TQIII; it ended up sounding so smooth and quiet compared to when it was running on it's split worm. Up until 2003, Sound & Screen Services in Kent could complete this job for you at about £150. Sadly the owner, Mr Hugh Bell passed away, and all his spares were transfered to Gordon Ogbourne.

Regarding why the original worms cracked many people offer many different reasons. Speaking to an engineer he said the reason was the different expansion rates of the two materials used on the originals (the metal core, and the nylon outer teeth). So as the metal expanded, and the nylon "weathered" over the years, it was a recipe for disaster.

It is true, there were worm gears in circulation that expanded and eventually siezed up in use. Fortunately, a supplier colleague of mine (again, Gordon Ogbourne of Ealing B F C C fame!) had these re-worked, and some of the material removed. As a result, even if they do expand, there will be no change at all in the speed of the machine. I have fitted several of these, and they're fine.

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