8mm Forum: Format/media for visual

This is topic Format/media for visual in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 09, 2005, 05:27 AM:

(Note: From now on, additional format will be indicated by bold letter)

Perhaps this topic is not interesting, but since I noticed from time to time people change the format/media of moving-visual entairtaiment then I would like to compile all COMMERCIAL formats are or used to be available.

Please correct me if I am wrong or if I have missed some, please add it.

Note: that video system is not counted, so forget about NTSC, PAL, SECAM etc. I am listing the formats which are not compatible one to the other. The other rule is, only those are/were available commercially for public to be listed.

(all lists are not in any particular order)

PRIMITIVE FORMAT (added)
1. Hand shadow puppet
2. Puppet shows (incl. wayang, etc)

PAPER CELLULOID/EARLIER ANIMATION (added)
(note: this is suggested by Jean, please use google image to see what kind of stuff they are)
1. Phenakistoscope
2. Zoetrope
3. Praxinoscope
4. Zoopraxinoscope
5. Praxinoscope
6. Kinetoscope
7. Mutoscope
8. Vitascope
9. Last but not least...Bookscope... (= flicker book) meaning while we are in the middle of the meeting, we make an animation of our boss on the books [Big Grin]

and the books got wrinkled

VINYL
1. Phonovision (invented in 1927, physically similar to phonograph...be honest this was not commercially sold but just to start with the history)

EMULSION CELLULOID (added)
1. standard/regular 8mm
2. super/single 8mm
3. 9.5mm
4. standard 16mm
5. super 16mm
6. 35mm
7. 70mm
8. 15 mm (Gaumont)
9. 17.5 mm (Ernemann)
10. 21 mm (Mirograph)
11. 22 mm (Edison)
12. 28 mm (Pathe)

MAGNETIC TAPES ANALOG
(Note: there were a lot of magnetic tapes available but they were only for broadcasting purposes or being experimented ...so not commercial used)
1. U-Matic (it is broadcasting tapes, but can be bought at almost ordinary shops)
2. Betamax
3. Video2000
4. VHS
5. SVHS
6. Video 8mm
7. Hi 8mm
8. Betacam (it is broadcasting tapes, but can be bought at almost ordinary shops)
9. VCR (released exclusively by Phillips)
10. ED-Beta
11. Super Beta
12. VCord I & II
13. VX Cartridge Format

MAGNETIC TAPES DIGITAL
1. Digital 8
2. DV
3. Mini DV
4. Micro MV
5. DVCam
6. DVCPRO

DISC ANALOG
1. CED (VideoDisc/SelectaVision)
2. DiscoVision (note: released exclusively by MCA & Phillips for analogue video, this is not LaserDisc)

DISC DIGITAL
1. LaserDisc
2. DVD
3. CD-i
4. VCD
5. SVCD
6. DIVX
7. UMD PSPS VIDEO (new movie format only for PlayStation)
8. Blueray
9. HD-DVD
10. PVD (only for VideoNow player)

NON PHYSICAL FORMAT
1. Video Streaming

Did I miss one...?

Please remember folks, all the above formats have die hard enthusiasts, like we do with 8mm [Wink]

cheers

[ November 14, 2007, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on November 09, 2005, 10:39 AM:

Not widely distributed, very ancient (early 1900s till 1920s) but considered as commercial :
15 mm (Gaumont)
17.5 mm (Ernemann)
21 mm (Mirograph)
22 mm (Edison)
28 mm (Pathe)

But I read about bizarre formats: 3mm, 11mm, 13mm, 17mm, 18mm, 26mm...
How about horizontal formats, such as VistaVision (65mm on 35 film)
Or reduced format such as Super35/TechniScope (also on 35)...

Posted by David Park (Member # 123) on November 09, 2005, 10:44 AM:

Philips CDi machines that you list did play a couple of sorts of discs with movies on, one sort will in fact play on my up to date DVD player the other will not.
The ones that will are labelled 'Video CD'
The earlier ones that are not playable are 'Digital Video on CDi'
In the time of the CDi Kodak had a a system for photographs called 'Kodak Photo CD'

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on November 09, 2005, 10:48 AM:

David, Video CD is "VCD" (see Winbert's list).
The system is still extremely popular in Asia. I still buy lots of cheap Hong-Kong films in that format.
All CDi machines were PhotoCD compatible.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 09, 2005, 04:48 PM:

List has been updated with Jean's input.

Jean, the bizare formats such as 3mm etc were they moving pictures? and if they didn't come commercially...sorry will not be listed.

David, the rule of compability that I meant was:
the A format can be played on B player and the B format can be played on A player.

DVD can play CDi but CDi player cannot play DVD so...this is not compatible. Therefore they should be listed respectively.

The meaning of this post it to see how much money we spend for those formats and how much money the companies got from us!!

(I just found a website/forum for those BETAMAX die harder...hmmm... I was so tempted to throw a joke on this format...but ... respect each other is more important [Wink]

)

Keep adding the above list if I still miss one.

Cheers,

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on November 09, 2005, 10:26 PM:

1. You listed "DIVX" - did you mean the Divx-DVD format which was cooked up by a bunch of greedy entertainment lawyers and failed miserably shortly after its launch a few years back? Or did you mean DivX, the video codec widely used (along with its open-source companion XviD) to "rip" movies from DVDs and encode them into a space-saving MPEG4 format, i.e. for storage/playback on PCs and laptops?

2. IMAX... where is the IMAX format? [Big Grin]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 10, 2005, 01:28 AM:

Jan,

1. I don't much about DIVX, but I once visited a shop and found this format. They warned me that it cannot be played (not compatible) in ordinary DVD player. But if their explanation wrong and DVD player can play DIVX, vice versa, I will delete it from the above list.

2. IMAX...isn't that 70mm? what is it gauge?

thanks.

Note: in BETAMAX' forum they called VHS as Video Horrible Sytem and Victor (JVC company, the pioner of VHS) Hates Sony (the pioneer of BETAMAX) [Big Grin]

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on November 10, 2005, 02:25 AM:

Imax is 70mm - horizontal.

Winbert, if you start listing primitive toys, you should look for Zoetropes, Kinetoscopes and the likes...

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 10, 2005, 03:11 AM:

Jean you are right, I have cheked google and those toys were earlier moving picture. I have added it and cateogrised them as paper celluloid. They were working on cell system but based on paper, is that right?

cheers,

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on November 10, 2005, 09:22 PM:

IMAX is indeed 70mm horizontal, but the frames are so huge that each one takes up fifteen sprocket holes. And the projectors are incredible uber-machines, using vacuum suction to hold each frame steady at the gate instead of a claw (or intermittent sprocket) mechanism. [Smile]

As for the DIVX you know, that would be the first DIVX I was talking about (not the video-codec one). No, DIVX discs were not playable in regular DVD players - the whole idea to begin with was that you had to get a DIVX DVD player which would play both regular DVDs and the DIVX discs, but DIVX discs - while very cheap to purchase - only let you view a movie for 48 hours, then you had to "reactivate" it by paying fee for it (for that purpose, DIVX DVD players were equipped with phone jacks to communicate via modems with a central server)... there was more to it, but you can already imagine the outcry over rip-off pricing, privacy concerns, technical pitfalls and so on. It was a well-deserved failure, and if you never heard of it until after the fact, you're better off for it. [Big Grin]

Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on November 15, 2005, 01:21 PM:

4.75 mm widescreen from Pathe

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 18, 2005, 10:42 PM:

I just added PVD (only for VideoNow player). I just found on website that this format is intended for today's kid only!!!

Crazzy.....please open this web page if you want to see what kind of stuff is this.

Cheers,

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on November 19, 2005, 07:06 AM:

A marketing gimmick...how interesting... but I doubt PVD will last a very long time... probably gone in a year or two... but interesting from a technical standpoint. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on December 01, 2005, 06:11 AM:

I just found that 8.75 mm ( and 16.2mm) were ever available from Luckyfilm in China (only). But Juergen of smallformat had confirmed on other forum that this is no longer available. But since the website of Luckyfilm is still placing this format, so I beleive this was just discontinued recently.

Luckyfilm's website

But I believe the 8.75mm came from slitting 35mm into 4.

Someone says that this was the common format for amateur filmmakers in China (again..only)

Strange enough how did the projector look?

I did not add to the above list, since this was not widely used.

Cheers,

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on December 01, 2005, 05:16 PM:

I hope that someone else here on the Forum was at the Syracuse Cinefest, about 5 or 6 years ago. Cinefest is a film exposition in Syracuse NY,
which showcases rare 16mm classic films, with a specialty screening on Saturday at the downtown Lowes State Theater

During the 35mm screening which is annually held at the Syracuse State Theater, they pulled out an ancient form of projection. I believe that it was called the magnascope.

The images were mounted in a huge 'glass donut', which would rotate and the frames were projected through a lens. Naturally the lens needed to move with the images, as a phonograph tone arm moves across an LP.

For todays audience, they needed to use a computer to digitize the images and transfer it back to film.
What we watched were images taken during the late 1800's of people being photographed. Home movies you may say, which are a throwback to a time capsule long ago.

Due to the technology transfer, we also caught the frames before and after the action which was adjacent the the primary row of images in the center of the screen.

Fascinating form of media.

Michael

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