8mm Forum: Disney and Blu Ray

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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on March 05, 2009, 05:52 PM:

Well, I see that Disney is releasing a platinum edition of Pinnochio in Blu-Ray and DVD on March 10. This will be followed by 'Snow White' in BD and DVD in October. The really dismal title selction presently existing on BD has so far discouraged me from taking the plunge, but if anything can change my mind it just might be these classic titles from the Disney archives. Anyway, for now I will hedge my bets and will buy the BD version of these titles for $12.00 more, as it also includes a DVD disc as well.
Incidentally, I went to my local Borders book store today and they are selling off all their DVD and BD titles at a 30% discount. The clerk told me they are not going to stock them anymore. The situation at the local Super Wal-Mart is no better for BD, where display shelf space is now down to a handful of shelves, compared with almost a hundred shelves for DVD. The local Blockbuster has now pulled all BD titles from the prime customer shelves around the perimeter of the store, and has relegated them to a couple of discrete display shelves out in the center of the showroom. A year ago Blockbuster told me that their marketing strategy was to totally phase out DVD for BD. Clearly that is not happening.
It could be that the world economic crisis will essentially close off any further significant growth in BD, and by the time the economy starts to get better, presumably several years from now, a totally new system of digital movies will have emerged.
All of which makes me feel 'reel' good about having some of these Disney masterpieces on super 8. [Wink]

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on March 06, 2009, 01:16 AM:

It's not taken off over here either Paul. Interesting.

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on March 06, 2009, 05:02 AM:

I think if they made the BD's prices the same as conventional DVD's then it may take off, but the prices vary so much from shop to shop on Blu-Ray discs. This must be addressed by a big distributor for the rest to follow suit, if Paramount or Universal or another big studio brought the BD's prices in line with DVD's then the rest would follow, but I can't see it at the moment, I have noticed a little slow reduction in the 5 months I've had one, but the prices need to drop, and very quickly, in my opinion.

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on March 06, 2009, 06:42 AM:

I think if you give it time, then Blu ray WILL catch on and possibly be the main format. I remember when I purchased my first DVD player, a samsung 709, this was £250 and this was cheap at the time. And also most DVD's in the shops were all at £19.99, finding them for £10 or less was almost impossible. Eventually prices should come down but it may take another year or two. [Smile]

But what is making the takeup of BR slower is probably that people are still content with standard DVD. When DVD first appeared it was miles better than VHS and people couldnt wait to chuck out their old tapes for instant search and better pictures + extras. But BR may have to work a little harder to get peoples attention, and the chinese manufactures will have to start producing cheap players and selling them in supermarkets. Thankfully large LCD HD tv's have got cheaper so this is one hurdle over.

Graham S

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on March 07, 2009, 08:38 PM:

Blu-ray discs are a great medium for watching films so I hope they do survive. Sony have been the innovators of a lot of new formats in media: BetaMax, Laserdisc, Minidisc, CD, SACD, UMD, BD, even the 3.5 floppydisk, etc. Some fail. I saw recently that there is dissent in the Sony ranks about this... UMD can go for films as far as I'm concerned but then I'm not the target consumer for that. Recession, depression... who can see what the future holds but entertainment does well in such times. Cinema boomed in its golden age in the 30s' depression and the WW2 years. People bought black wax records too. Who can say?

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 08, 2009, 10:13 PM:

Hi Paul
I have not made the move to Blu-Ray as yet, out here things are getting better with more titles on the shelfs. I noticed Peter Jacksons "King Kong", Blade Runner etc so its getting very tempting. [Roll Eyes]

I would like to make that move in about three months time as two of us have a contract to paint a community centre, our junior projectionist is saving for a trip to Aussie and me a Blu-Ray player "multi-skilled projectionists we are [Wink]

" so money wise thats part of the grand plan [Smile]

Graham.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 08, 2009, 10:28 PM:

My problem with buying Disney Blu-Rays, is that these films have already been fully restored and released on standard DVD, and with these modern upconverting DVD playrs (giving you 1080p), why bother with a yet released for the umpth-teenth time Pinnochio?

What are they going to have, another inter-active game or another lost or missing song, or deleted scene storyboards?

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on March 08, 2009, 10:48 PM:

What I do like about BDVs I have so far is 1) no annoying layer-transition pause, like DVD, 2) no unskippable copyright warning section, and 3) 24 frames per second video ( which in the UK is a new deal.) These are scores over DVD.

Posted by John Hermes (Member # 1367) on March 09, 2009, 12:12 AM:

I never thought layer change was a big deal with DVDs. Just a freeze frame for a second in a two-hour movie. One thing I don't like with BR is the clunky menu. Geeze, just fade up on a simple menu so I can press play like on most DVDs. Kind of reminds me of Windows Vista. Yuck.

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on March 09, 2009, 04:29 AM:

Can anyone who´s seen Pinnochio in both DVD and BR comment on the picture quality -is there significant improvment?
[Roll Eyes]

Cheers
Lars

Posted by Stuart Fyvie (Member # 38) on March 09, 2009, 04:58 PM:

My blu ray has just arrived today, just watched the first 20 mins on my DLP projector.
The image is absolutely stunning. Amazing colour saturation and detail. It is also flawless with no dirt or sparkle. It has that quality of colour that you used to get from the Dye prints in the early days. Amazing quality for a film of 70 years old. So much more detail in the image to notice, the artistry that went into every frame has a new lease of life. You also get a standard def. DVD version in the box, so even if you don't have a blu ray player you can run this until you do upgrade. It is a bargain. I can also recommend the 'Sleeping Beauty' release BD also.
Thats my kids sorted out this weekend. Might run a few 8mm shorts before the main feature!

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 09, 2009, 06:41 PM:

Thats great Stuart

Thats it! I am now totally sold on the idea of Blu-Ray [Cool]

now all I have to do is earn enough money next month to buy one [Wink]

Graham.

Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on March 10, 2009, 11:01 AM:

I don't buy BD's from shops, there is no choice with there limited stocks and the price is not realistic. I waited for my John Wayne (The Searchers) and picked up a copy on Amazon for £9.99

I totally agree that BD has not grabbed the attention of the general public. Whether this has anything to do with the worldwide recession, or that people are just not bothered about picture quality enough to pay for new equipment. I think it’s now a matter of both and with DVD’s being almost given away in some shops and websites I think it’s hard for people to justify paying £17.99 to £24.99 for a film on BD when you can get it on DVD for £3.00 – £9.99. Also people have been made to believe that up scaling is as good as BD; it’s not, but it maybe to the casual viewer, which most people are.
Blockbusters I believe is in trouble and won’t be investing in Blu-Rays and is presently selling off a lot of there stock of DVD’s, possibly because people are buying rather than renting, and lets face it for a couple of quid extra it's yours, and you can watch it when you like.

I am still buying DVD's because there so cheap. BD's are a treat and have added extra excitement on my Blu-Ray film nights. The Settlers was fantastic.

Check these screen shots out on Great Expectations (Blu-ray)
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=1099&show=screenshots

Chris.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 10, 2009, 01:46 PM:

Out here we have what we call the big red shed "The Warehouse" their saying "where everyone get a bargain" [Smile]

the stores are throughout the city you can buy anything and are huge. The entertainment section has thousands of DVDs all prices, many are imports and last week I noticed that the Blu-Ray selection is getting larger. Other stores that stock Blu-Ray seem to be increasing their stock as well, There seems to be a more positive attitude to the recession out here, although people are not ignorant that there is one, as for the price of Blu-Ray, although more expensive than your standard DVD I dont think its to bad, I would pay as much for a new 200ft Super8 film all 7-10 minutes worth than say eg Peter Jacksons "King Kong" on Blu-Ray, and thats nothing compared what people used to pay myself included in the 70s or 80s for a Super8 16 minute digest [Eek!]

. I use the Panasonic PT-AX200E projector, not interested in upscaling and look forward to watching movies like "Blade Runner" and other titles like Disneys "Narnia" on Blu-Ray in the near future [Smile]

Graham.

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on March 10, 2009, 02:17 PM:

Amazing BDVs I've seen: 2001, The Searchers, Terminator 2, Iron Man... all incredible picture quality. The DVD of 2001 projects well but the BDV is even better. I've had both feeding into my VP and switched between the two.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on March 10, 2009, 05:34 PM:

One question that I have, and I hope someone can give a definite answer. My projector is 720p not 1080p - will I see a significant improvement using a BD player?

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on March 10, 2009, 05:53 PM:

Although my Panasonic VP is 1080p, my regular TV is a Loewe 37 inch LCD set which is ( only ) 720p. I put the Panasonic BD30 player into this with HDMI and ran 'The Searchers'. It was still a revelation. The depth in the image and the detail in the rocks and scrub in the background were still there on the 720 set that I see in the projected image that is much larger of course at equal to a 75inch TV screen. The 720p Loewe set gave the best picture it has ever produced. It also displayed 24fps video, incidently. I don't have a 720p VP for direct comparison but I think there would still be improvement on outstanding BD titles.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on March 11, 2009, 08:24 AM:

Just thought I'd point out that the last DVD player I purchased doesn't pause at the layer change. So it looks like that little foible was sorted out then.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on March 11, 2009, 09:03 AM:

John, my new Pioneer BDP-LX71 Blu-ray player is a fantastic machine for playing Blu-ray but a mixed bag with standard DVD; for example, layer change can take up to 4-5 seconds!!! Pioneer's attitude is "well, it is first and foremost a Blu-ray player". [Roll Eyes]

Still, I'll forgive it as it really is a sparkling Blu-ray spinner.

That said, I now also use a Toshiba XD-E500 for up-scaling standard discs. Not only is it the best upscaling player I've seen (despite the bargain price) it doesn't have any delay at layer change.

Paul, although I haven't used 720 resolution displays, I think it is worth bearing in mind that Blu-ray isn't just about resolution. For me, other huge benefits over standard DVD are the lack of edge enchancement used in mastering Blu-ray. Also, less "colour banding" in evidence. All this adds up to something closer to the actual film master and less "video" looking. Although I think up-scaling can improve the look of some DVD's, it's my opinion that you just can't remove artifacts which are already present in the format...artifacts that just aren't present on a good Blu-ray.

Also, even though I'm using 5.1 for both DVD and Blu-ray (via a standard optical lead to the amp, not HDMI yet) the sound quality on recent releases is much improved from Blu-ray discs compared to DVD (try listening to the opening credits of "Casino Royal" on DVD then Blu-ray with the same gear - like chalk and cheese!).

Looking forward to buying a copy of Pinocchio! [Smile]

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