8mm Forum: An ebayer to avoid ...

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 07, 2009, 06:37 PM:

Hey folks!

Just thought I'd would warn you about a troublesome ebayer. The ebay ID is

stuffatipick4ucom

I saw an auction for a Super 8 film, and I personally should have saw the warning signs, but I'll give you all the info and you come to your own judgment.

The auction was for a 400ft film. The seller stated 8.50 cents (the cents are not exact but it was over eight dollars and under nine). Anybody who ships by media mail knows that one 400ft reel will ship by media mail for less than even three dollars, so I saw that the shipping was highly inflated.

I wrote the individual concerning the media stated on the auction. This was a good deal before trhe end of the auction.
The seller refused to respond. That should have been a first big red light for me.

When I bid on the item, I did my customary "odd" bid. It had one bid and was at the starting bid; my bid of 16.00 dollars and a very odd number of cents ...

Sure enough, with less than twenty seconds left, the high bid went up to exactly my 16.00 dollars and very odd cents. With only twenty seconds left, there was no way to cancel the bid.

I contacted the seller after the auction ended. The sellers response was, (slight change in wording, but stating the same)

"The shipping is the shipping. If you didn't like it, you should not have bid."

I had hoped that the "excellent condition" would be just that when it arrived. Sure enough, it was shipped by media, (allowing the seller to pocket six dollars extra profit), and the film was VERY FADED, not excellent condition!

For the very first time that I can remember, I left bad but justified feedback. The seller responded with ... (this is direct quote)

"tried to intimidate me to lower shipping. No contact"

Both of which were untrue.

Fortunately, it only cost me 16.00 dollars, but I can at least warn you folks. Once again, the sellers ID is ...

stuffatipick4ucom

I thank you for your time.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on July 08, 2009, 11:26 AM:

Osi, first of all, I am not taking on any side

quote:
Sure enough, with less than twenty seconds left, the high bid went up to exactly my 16.00 dollars and very odd cents. With only twenty seconds left, there was no way to cancel the bid.

Why you need to cancel it if you think $16+ is your best price. This is an auction, and by not doing that you won the item at your price. That was what you hope, wasn't that? (regardless condition of the item after you received it)

Secondly, on his listing, he has provided the close picture of the leader... and it clearly shows faded print... why did you still put your hope for a good print.

This is the link of Osi's auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110404797599&viewitem=&salenotsupported

And this is the picture I meant:

(due to a restriction of pixel I can only upload small picture but his description is much bigger and clearly shows a faded print)

Lastly, if I were you, upon the arrival of the item, I would not complain on excessive postage but rather the item itself which he says to be excellent but you got otherwise. By doing this, there will be a chance of refund.

(ps: so how many Star Wars 400" you have had to date [Wink]

)

cheers,

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on July 08, 2009, 11:54 AM:

Osi, the shipping was too high, but it was stated on the auction. You took a chance that the seller would lower his shipping cost. When he did not respond to your shipping inquiry that should have told you not to bid. The film strip does show a red leader. [Frown]

Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on July 08, 2009, 12:29 PM:

Osi, about bidding:

quote:
When I bid on the item, I did my customary "odd" bid. It had one bid and was at the starting bid; my bid of 16.00 dollars and a very odd number of cents ...

Sure enough, with less than twenty seconds left, the high bid went up to exactly my 16.00 dollars and very odd cents. With only twenty seconds left, there was no way to cancel the bid

This is exactly how eBay works and absolutely no faul play.
You say the first bid was at the starting price, but in fact he/she already bidded $ 15.55.
With every new bid eBay increases the price with $ 1.-.
So if you bidded $ 20.- the final price would have been $ 16.55.
But because you only bidded $ 0.21 more then the highest bid, eBay can only raise the price with $ 0.21 instead of $ 1.-.
If your highest bid would have been $ 11.76, the other would have won the auction at $ 12.76.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on July 08, 2009, 01:25 PM:

I have to agree I can see no foul play here on the sellers part.

If the shipping price was high you shouldn't have bid.

One other thing - IMO when describing a film the condition does not have anything to do with the colour. A print can be faded or be a poor dupe but be in excellent physical condition. In any case, from the pic of the leader the fade is obvious. If the print is damaged, scratched, splice-ridden - then you have a legitimate beef.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 08, 2009, 03:45 PM:

To respond to some of the posts ...

I took a chance on the auction because, though he did show the leader on the photo, the photo had a brown background, so you really can't tell if the film was faded by the photo. When I received the item, the clear area on the sprockets was an almost perfect clear, nearly no browning whatsoever, but the actual color was terribly faded.

Regarding the bidding, it is highly unlikely that, when there were no other bids, (but the starting bid) that the person before me would bid exactly below the amount and that the high bid was immediately exactly what I had made my high bid. Though I did not do it, if I had bid 23.46, for instance ... I am sure that it would have been exactly up to my high bid 23.46.

However, you good fellas are right that when I didn't get a response on the excessive shipping, I shouldn't have bid. That is, of course my fault. I did assume that the seller would change the shipping to a proper media mail charge. Granted, my assumption was wrong, but every person I have bought from before, if I asked them to work with me on the shipping, they would. This was the first time that the person didn't.

His comment on the reaction to my negative feedback was an outright lie. He stated that I attempted to "intimidate" him into lowering the shipping. There was no intimidation involved.
I merely asked if he would be willing to ship the package by an actual media mail amount as, as a seller myself, I know how much a 400ft would ship for. No intimidation whatsoever. I did attempt to contact him and he didn't reply. No lie there either on my part.

I rarely run into a bad ebayer, but this person was not one of the good ones, to be sure. If you, fellow forum members, should buy from this seller in the future, be assured that ...

The shipping will be highly padded for the sellers profit.
The item will not be as described.

Lastly, as to the statement that color is not a part of the condition of the print, I highly disagree with. If a person is selling an item, whatever it is, they SHOULD verify the complete condition, and that includes color. Any reputable dealer, (such as our own Dan lail, a very good ebayer), will make sure of the complete condition of the item.

I also found that, when making a claim through paypal for my money back, that they also take into account the "color" of the item purchased, whether it is faded or not. Interesting that they would have that as part of they're conditions. Even paypal takes that into account.

but thanks for the feedback on this post. I only put it on here for my fellow forum members caution.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on July 08, 2009, 04:02 PM:

i have a question for the sellers on here...How come whenever I list a film on ebay (even a 16mm feature) it won't let me put anything above $6.00 for media, but this seller was able to list a smaller format film (8mm) for $8.38?

While I have to agree in part that sometimes you take a risk on ebay especially in terms of having to pay what a seller states is the shipping charge, if Osi sends back the print for a refund shouldn't he get a full refund minus ONLY the amount the seller PAID on shipping not the amount charged for shipping? If the seller does not agree to that (which is stated in the sellers refund policy) then it is fraud. Basically Osi if you just received this item you should be able to get the majority of your money back and then you can both agree to remove the feedback altogether. As for listing the details of this transaction I think it can be helpful, because it highlights the various little nuances needed to ebay safely such as now you need to ask three fold questions that cover "vinegar,condition, and color" since as I have said everyones ideas of what "excellent" means is subjective.

quote:
Our Guarantee and return information
We guarantee our items to be exactly as represented in auction. If you are unhappy with your purchase, you may return it within 7 days, in the same condition that it was sent and we will refund your money, less actual shipping charges

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on July 08, 2009, 04:15 PM:

quote:
Regarding the bidding, it is highly unlikely that, when there were no other bids, (but the starting bid) that the person before me would bid exactly below the amount and that the high bid was immediately exactly what

Osi, I did remember you asked the very same question on other posting and our members here have explained clearly how does Ebay work.

quote:
I had made my high bid. Though I did not do it, if I had bid 23.46, for instance ... I am sure that it would have been exactly up to my high bid 23.46.

Yes that will be possible if the second higher bidder from you put his bid at the same amount (or a bit less) than you. Probably another member with better English can explain Osi about this, please.

Listen mi Amigo, I once got the problem with a seller that had an excessive postage on his description. Exactly like what you did, I asked for lower shipping cost but he didn't want it although I knew he would pocket some extra money from that.

I kept putting my bid and he invoiced me for high shipping cost.

We ended up on leaving retaliation negative feedbacks (at that time seller could still do that, but not now). I complained Ebay, but Ebay stated that whatever shown on description, buyers have to follow. Lucky me, Ebay remove the negative feedback on my ratings after I pleaded not to do that again.

So, you know now what is the Ebay's position on this.

But since now seller cannot leave negative feedback, my kindly advise for you my friend, do remove your negative feedback and return the item as Dino has advised.

Otherwise, still do remove the neg feedback, keep the film, re-list it for sale. But now, don't put under 8mm section, but, go to Star Wars category.

On your listing, use any Star Wars terminology/wordings, but clearly state that this is an old item but collectable so color may have changed. I see the box does still look excellent for them.

Believe me , you can sell that for $25.

I did once and sold for even more ($50..I guess).

But if you do this then..... there is some words I'd like to say, .... that is....

"Welcome (back) in Ebay worlds" [Big Grin]

cheers,

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on July 08, 2009, 05:07 PM:

QUOTE:
Lastly, as to the statement that color is not a part of the condition of the print, I highly disagree with. If a person is selling an item, whatever it is, they SHOULD verify the complete condition, and that includes color. Any reputable dealer, (such as our own Dan lail, a very good ebayer), will make sure of the complete condition of the item.

I absolutely agree that a seller should make clear the fact that a print is faded and/or more specifically, what stock the print is on.
BUT, "colour" and "condition" are two separate questions with film prints, whether you agree or disagree.
Perhaps if you had asked him about the colour he would have told you it was faded. Who knows?

Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on July 08, 2009, 05:32 PM:

quote:
Regarding the bidding, it is highly unlikely that, when there were no other bids, (but the starting bid) that the person before me would bid exactly below the amount and that the high bid was immediately exactly what I had made my high bid. Though I did not do it, if I had bid 23.46, for instance ... I am sure that it would have been exactly up to my high bid 23.46.

After the auctions ends you can see the bidding history.
In your case you can see your 2 bids and 1 bid from someone else.
That other bidder placed a bid from $ 15.50 so the end bid could have been $ 16.50 max if your highest bid would have been $ 23.46 (or whatever above $ 16.50).
Hope you understand the bidding system a little better now.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 08, 2009, 05:39 PM:

Once again, thanks for the feedback on this. I'll probably relist it myself, sometimes in the future, but at least, I WILL state the stock AND the color fade.

On a slightly related note, my feedback went back up to 98.1 after having been in doldrums for almost six months at 94 percent. I'll still discontinue this account, (when I'm actually brave enough to!) but I found that interesting.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 08, 2009, 06:03 PM:

When it hits 100, sell!

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 08, 2009, 06:12 PM:

Haha Steve!

If it got ten dollars, SELL!

Actually, I shouldn't be too hard on this much mailgned by myself print. Except for one little rip in the plastic on the top, the box is pristine and the print, while faded, does not have a single scratch, but due to the color fade (Kodak SP), excellent it is not.

Bother ... I'm almost over it by now.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on July 08, 2009, 06:32 PM:

I have to say I am a bit with Osi here, yes maybe he made a mistake but the seller was knowing milking the overpriced post and was very unfair saying Osi tried to intimidate him, a simple request is hardly that.
At least its scratch free but red is a hard watch.
There are sellers I`ve had contact with will charge you for postage , packing materials, thier time packing, thier time and petrol going to the post office etc even though they are often going with many items at a time and even over charging on the post as well. Its happened to me.You pay many times the actual post. Its usually disapointing films this sort of thing happens with as well.!!!!!
On a crappy print like this of Osi`s if only the seller were kind and nice enmough to put this right, even just small % gesture, he knows Osi has bought rubbish but will still grip on tight to the over post even, why not refund that or part at the very least, or the lot really hearing how poor it was.
There is often a feeling on ebay people adopt that its fair game to sell any old crap and by bidding on it the poor buyer has signed up to turn thier money into crap and into money in the sellers pocket so its OK.
Decency, understanding, fairness etc go out of the window.

I bought a dvd on ebay, I asked a question about it and the seller told me yes it had this and that etc was the one I was after as you couldn`t really tell from the pic etc.
I won the auction, quite low so as pleased actually sent extra money as I do if things go a bit low in my eyes to be fair to the buyer.

When it came it simply wasn`t what he had told me it was at all.

It wasn`t a huge amount of £`s etc so I emailed to just tell him unfortunately it wasn`t what he thought etc, shame, but it was OK and these things a happen. It was fine thanks etc anyway.

However I still got a very curt email off the seller saying as far as he was concerned he puts a picture and thats what you get and thats how it is etc- abrupt stop !!!!

At this unexpected reply I just sent back and said it was a little sad and ironic to take that attitude especialy as I paid more than I needed to as well and was OK about it anyway.

Ebay affects people in some very funny ways and allows them to justify unfairness often and lack of real compassion and kid themselves its OK.
I`m with John B on this one as well in that sense.

Sorry Osi, the compulsion of film took you the wrong way but please don`t sell it on as its 100% who-ever buys it will be unhappy with it really.
I`m sending you a $1 to help bin it and keep the reel or give it away and hope a few others might too. Leave the sellers bad vibe behind.
Best Mark.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 08, 2009, 06:36 PM:

I have a few of these myself: you'll watch it by yourself, but wouldn't dare show it to an audience. That kind of film just reinforces every bad thing people believe about film and is sure to result in the "Why don't you just get a (VCR)(DVD Player)(Blu-Ray Player)**, it looks so much better!" speech.

**Depending on when the speech was made....

I have a pretty sickening Niles feature that the color runs all the way from "OK" to "Yikes!", yet it doesn't have a line on it anywhere after about 30 years in the wild. A film that's painful to watch will never wear out: only the good die young!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on July 08, 2009, 06:49 PM:

Osi Osgood wrote:

quote:
my feedback went back up to 98.1 after having been in doldrums for almost six months at 94 percent. I'll still discontinue this account, (when I'm actually brave enough to!) but I found that interesting.

This is what I exactly told you last time (when you decided to stop ebaying) that you didn't need to be upset with your negative feedback because it will be going back to 100% again after certain periods. This is a new Ebay's rule (to compensate that seller cannot leave neg feedback)

Mark Todd wrote:

quote:
Sorry Osi, the compulsion of film took you the wrong way but please don`t sell it on as its 100% who-ever buys it will be unhappy with it really.
I`m sending you a $1 to help bin it and keep the reel or give it away and hope a few others might too. Leave the sellers bad vibe behind.

Mark, that is why I advised Osi to list that under Star Wars' category (not films). So who ever is going to purchase, will keep it as a memorabilia/merchandise and will not watch it.

This is the only way not to make other unhappy.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 08, 2009, 08:25 PM:

I'll probably toss it, or put it in a lot of films. Ya know, ten dollars for the whole lot. You pays yo ten dollars and get a bunch of films, you can't screech to much, espcially when its maybe a buck or two for each film.

When it comes to shipping, I try to be accurate on the shipping. I've always had a policy that if I had a dollar or two left over, I would write the buyer and ask for they're paypal back. It makes a hell of a great impression when they actually run into someone who'll actually do that, and that means more to me, (the joy it brings) than pocketed that extra two dollars, no matter how much were behind the proverbial eight ball.

I sent you an e-mail before I realized why you sent a dollar. Mark, I'll remember that. Those kind of things I always do!

Now I'm only out 23.00 dollars. Yay!

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on July 09, 2009, 02:52 AM:

I see no reason why you shouldn't sell it on Osi.
I don't know anything about Super 8 but in 16mm collecting there are some who are happy to pay less for a faded title if its something they really want. I don't understand it myself, but, they are out there.
As long as you're clear in the listing that it's faded then theres nothing for any buyer to be unhappy about.

Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on July 10, 2009, 01:52 AM:

Osi,it's a crap shoot anytime you buy on ebay unless you personally know the dealer.Most large dealers have too many listings to take the time to be customer friendly.And,contrary to popular belief,there are so many ways to play unfair games on ebay that,some,not all dealers take full advantage of every crack in the system.The shipping con is the most common.I often get a great laugh at some of the dealers rates.My rule of thumb is,if they are being unfair in the shipping costs,can you really trust them on other aspects?I think we know the answer.

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