8mm Forum: Return of the Jedi

This is topic Return of the Jedi in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=002668

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on July 25, 2013, 02:28 PM:

i know that I'm surrounded by the Star Wars afficionados, but perhaps someone can tell me why they changed the end of this
film, regarding the actor playing Darth, was changed into I presume, the young actor taking over for the "prequels" in the
ghost sequence. It had been many years since I viewed it, so it
came as a shock on the recent TV screening, dated 1997, while
the movie was made in '83

Posted by Akshay Nanjangud (Member # 2828) on July 25, 2013, 02:33 PM:

If this is a sales pitch, I will buy it. [Big Grin]

Wrong section Hugh?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 25, 2013, 03:27 PM:

Hugh, I always thought that was odd in the special editions, as, you don't see a young Obiwan Kenobi in the special edition, no, its Alec Guiness, old Obiwan.

So, putting the young Anikan skywalker instead of the old Anikan/Vader, I always thought it was a mistake.

By the way, for those looking for "Return of the Jedi", Derann made some lovely prints of this title, but beware, as there are saome excessively blur prints of this title, (and I "aint" talking the language!)

Posted by Ernie Zahn (Member # 274) on July 25, 2013, 03:30 PM:

Yeah I was totally down to message you about buying it!

To answer your question: it was not "they" who replaced Anakin at the end. It was specifically George Lucas. The special edition has been changed multiple times since the initial updates in 1997. The final changes on the BluRay were made with the intention to better tightly tie the prequels with the original trilogy.

Lucas doesn't consider the theatrical versions of the original trilogy as canon or as the official versions. He looks at them as "rough cuts"

Here's a quote from him:

quote:
There will only be one [version of the films]. And it won't be what I would call the "rough cut", it'll be the "final cut". The other one will be some sort of interesting artifact that people will look at and say, "There was an earlier draft of this." The same thing happens with plays and earlier drafts of books. In essence, films never get finished, they get abandoned. At some point, you're dragged off the picture kicking and screaming while somebody says, "Okay, it's done." That isn't really the way it should work. Occasionally, [you can] go back and get your cut of the video out there, which I did on both American Graffiti and THX 1138; that's the place where it will live forever. So what ends up being important in my mind is what the DVD version is going to look like, because that's what everybody is going to remember. The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won't last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you'll be able to project it on a 20-foot-by-40-foot screen with perfect quality. I think it's the director's prerogative, not the studio's, to go back and reinvent a movie.

Since there will never be a BluRay release of the theatrical versions, that makes the Super 8 prints all the more valuable.

And OSI to answer your question. You;re right they didn't change Obi Wan at the end but there's a difference. There's an entire generation that recognizes the face of Anakin Skywalker (Darth Vader) as Hayden Christiansen from the prequels. Where as Alex Guinness and Ewan McGregor are both recognizable as Obi Wan.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on July 25, 2013, 04:07 PM:

Thanks amigos, I was at a loss at first. I think that Directors that
always have to return to a work and modernise, as a pain. In my
trade, folks would soon get tired of men chiseling, re plastering
the same building as the mood took them.It was a nice film first time round, and as Osi points out, the age difference is off in the
film that we have now.
PS, Sorry, Akshay is right, wrong section,My mistake.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on July 25, 2013, 04:24 PM:

I think the theatrical version are on DVD ... I have those, non-anamorphic and the same as the laser disc, so even if no Blu-Ray, still two options, though I'd love to get the Super 8 of the original release too (have the 96/97 version already)

Posted by Thomas Murin, Jr. (Member # 1745) on July 25, 2013, 04:49 PM:

It's simple: when Anakin helped Palpatine kill Mace Windu, he "died". He is then re-born as Darth Vader.

Obi-Wan himself says so in Jedi: "...when that happened, the good man that was your father was destroyed."

When Darth Vader killed Palpatine, he also killed himself therefore allowing Anakin to "return" (thus the title).

Hence, Anakin's "Force ghost" represents what he looked like at the moment of his (spiritual) death.

Obi-Wan and Yoda were old, physically and spiritually, when they died so their ghosts reflect that.

The original actor, Sebastian Shaw is still in the movie for Anakin's physical death scene.

Finally, there are rumors that Disney will release the original versions, fully restored, on Blu-Ray for the 40th anniversary in 2017.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on July 25, 2013, 05:16 PM:

Well that little bit obviously slipped by George first time round,and
he thought it up!.Honestly, I do like the Star Wars Films, as the Indiana
Jones films, but like Osi, the first time round,is the film you remember, although, just to throw further spanners in the works, as one member remembers, was there yet another version that had the fabled "second throw" by Luke in swinging over the chasm, I reckon there was.It's a bit like the Venus de Milo, the man
has made this work of art, wheels it through a door opening too
narrow and breaks off the arms,says "to hell with it" and enters
it in a competition and wins,they aren't going to thank him for re glueing her arms back on.You can't go back.
Plus, here we are making excuses for a franchise that more or less, if comments on here are to be believed, is that "okay, you
older guys (and gals ) have seen the film, but you don't matter now, we've had your money, it's the younger folks we target"
Somehow, I don't think Lucas had thought this far in front, the
money men had moved in..

Posted by Ernie Zahn (Member # 274) on July 25, 2013, 07:28 PM:

The rumor has be debunked as far as I know. Something to do with 20th century having the distribution rights.

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on July 27, 2013, 05:40 PM:

Well as far as what George says about a film being taken out of your hands as a director I believe most film directors would agree. If they could they would go back and change things or do some things different in there movies but most can't do that. George could and while I really like the original versions of Star Wars trilogy I like the special editions too and I can understand why he added to them to connect them to the new films...there is 16 years between Jedi and Phantom and Phantom is some 30 years before in story!

My opinion.

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on July 27, 2013, 06:16 PM:

A valued opinion too Bill. To be honest, when I watched it some days back, I have never viewed in many years, it came as a shock.
I felt sorry for the actor playing Darth, as his part was reduced
still further, being edged out,as it were to make way for the
prequels.

Posted by Oemer Yalinkilic (Member # 86) on July 27, 2013, 06:20 PM:

A long time I was a big fan of the old trilogy and I didn´t liked so much the new trilogy.
My Son have lot of Star Wars toys and he love the clon soldiers and the droids. He like also to watch the Clon Wars TV show.
After watching together with him lot of episodes of the TV show and the new trilogy features, I changed my mind and my favorite ranking is:

Empire strikes Back
Attack of the clon Wars
A new hope
Revenge of the sith
Phantom Menace
Return of the Jedi

And still I hate the special edition. I was very happy in the 90´s to see them with the new scenes, but after the new episodes, they look today displaced.
I think maybe it is time for a new version of "A new hope" with new actors and modern special efects.

Posted by Akshay Nanjangud (Member # 2828) on July 27, 2013, 07:37 PM:

New actors? I read somewhere Ryan Gosling and Zac Efron are going to play the kids of Skywalker and Solo. The article said 'rumoured', so nothing is certain.

Posted by Brian Stearns (Member # 3792) on July 27, 2013, 08:25 PM:

Lucas was inconsistent at the end of Jedi, by changing The old Anakin into a young version and not showing young Even Kanobi and yoda,so the others stay old.

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on July 27, 2013, 09:58 PM:

May the force be with you all!

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 28, 2013, 08:55 AM:

It makes me awful happy to have that original 1977 version of STARWARS. Take that George Ruthless!

By the way, I added one very telling evidence for just how early on the negative was for that Cineavision Star Wars print!

When it said "original negative" on the leader, just how original might this negative have been for that Cineavsion style print?

Posted by Oemer Yalinkilic (Member # 86) on July 28, 2013, 03:18 PM:

Osi, I am convinced that the Cinevision S8 print is a ilegal reduction from a 35mm positive and the information on the leader is for the 35mm print which was used as a master.

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on July 28, 2013, 03:43 PM:

In other words osi, you have the holy grail of star wars films! [Eek!]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 28, 2013, 05:51 PM:

Well, there are other copies of this version around out there. I don't know how many were done on this "print run" ...

... but you'll have to find your own, as I'm holding onto THIS GRAIL!!! [Big Grin]

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on July 28, 2013, 08:54 PM:

Well done Osi, I personally think the original film was the best,"Star Wars", the
others were I felt were an excuse for toy merchandise.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on July 29, 2013, 02:58 AM:

One observation chaps - and I'm no fan of Return of the Sith by any stretch of the imagination - but didn't Anakin die young? I may not recall this correctly and I certainly have no desire to ever sit through the film again, but I thought he appeared in ghost form as he last looked before being installed in the Darth Vader suit. This was not the case with Yoda and Ben Kenobi.

Posted by Thomas Murin, Jr. (Member # 1745) on July 29, 2013, 11:58 AM:

John, that's EXACTLY what I said in my previous post.

I even pointed out that Ben's speech to Luke implies it.

Again, Anakin Skywalker DIES when he helps Palpatine kill Mace Windu in Revenge Of The Sith. Palpatine then gives him a new name and Darth Vader is "born".

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on July 29, 2013, 08:29 PM:

Well it took fourteen years to figure that one,so if anymore addtional features are made,expect returns to tweak and alter, plus more special editions to keep this threadbare tapestry alive.

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on July 30, 2013, 05:19 PM:

Well I would say despite the many people who don't like it, there are many people who do like it so it will be alive for many year to come.

Bill [Smile]

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2