8mm Forum: Are all HD TV's crap?

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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on June 12, 2014, 01:37 PM:

I recently spent a week at my daughter's house and had the opportunity to view her new 56ins LCD TV. To say that I was unimpressed is an understatement. Not that the picture was not sharp, and there was plenty of detail, but it just did not look real. I was able to play around withe the menu and adjust the calibration, but no matter what, the colors did not look right. It all had that supersaturated plastic look, and live TV studio shots in particular looked plain crappy. When I moved my head more than 45 degrees off center the picture started washing out.
I came home and turned on my old sony XBR 36 ins CRT television, which is standard definition, and the picture really looked so much better, far more natural.
Made me realize how vastly superior digital projectors are to flat panel TV'S. And how much better the old CRT television set was.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on June 12, 2014, 01:47 PM:

Mines a Plasma and looks pretty good.

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on June 12, 2014, 01:51 PM:

Something is not set up right. My picture is awesome. looks like you are there in realtime. Some TV's have a cinema, sports, live, standard, vibrant etc setting. That changes the color to a more watchable setting to the viewers taste. Good luck with it.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 12, 2014, 02:07 PM:

Well, Paul, this isn't a straight forward one to answer.

I'm sure many here will just chip in with agreement that anything modern is crap, but that isn't true and certainly things are not as straight forward as they once were.

Certainly, CRT is very forgiving of any video you provide.

The issue with LCD or, indeed Plasma (please bring on Oled!) is that it is so very dependent upon so many factors...

I'm off to work now, but I'm sure that this is going to be a most interesting discussion, because the real answer is that some HD displays are good, some are crap, and the results really do depend upon so many variables...

So short answer to "Are all HD TV's crap?" is, yes, some are, and, no, some aren't; and that most can be made to look crap, and that some, when they look right, are pretty darn amazing...

TBC...

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on June 12, 2014, 02:13 PM:

Paul,

Don't forget that such sets usually are switched to the "Maximum Brightness/Maximum Color" exhibition mode which dealers use for the showroom. It looks like hell but it attracts the customers!

My Panasonic Viera 58-inch plasma looks quite lovely both with B/W and color films, Blu-Rays in particular. I set it using a greyscale and a set of NTSC color bars which are readily available on-line.
I know you are familiar with this, but just for anyone who has a bad set-up:
Strong black levels are essential, as they are with a film print and/or a video, in order to get a punchy good-looking image.
Set contrast/brightness with the greyscale before you start on color.
Leave sharpness in center position or possibly roll it off a little, and don't overcrank the "color" (chroma) setting.

Now, plasma or a good projector, to me, is still the best-looking technology for watching video (I have yet to see the new 4K screens in action) but with the above setup "Mad Men", shot in 35mm and beautifully transferred, looks amazing.

Claus.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on June 12, 2014, 02:14 PM:

Yes, something is wrong. The picture is digital :-(

What kind of TV is it? My Sony 55" came with standard settings, as the all do in new condition. There was something called Motion Flow I believe (or maybe that was Samsung's or Panasonic's name for it) ... It does, as you say, create a video look. Film looks like it's part of the news. Turn absolutely everything off that is "enhancements" and it's bearable, but not close to real film of course

Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on June 12, 2014, 03:12 PM:

Now, I'm very, very fussy over TV pictures (see my working life occupation), and at the time I retired (2005) I would not have touched LCD or Plasma, HD or not, with a bargepole.There was nothing to match a good CRT, properly set up, and fed with a good strength signal from an Analogue transmitter. And then all transmitters carried Digital channels only with a consequent degradation provided by a reconstituted Analogue picture from an SD digital stream. Even the results from an HD Convertor couldn't match up to my previous off-air Analogue pictures.

Then my last decent sized CRT set gave up the ghost in late 2011 and I bit the bullet with a 37 inch LED Backlit LCD Panasonic. It gives STUNNING pictures .... but it did need careful setting up to achieve that result.
My 40 inch Toshiba, 19 inch Toshiba and 19 inch LG (all acquired later) are not a patch on it, EVEN WITH my best set-up endeavours.

Rules: If you pay peanuts you get rubbish.
Don't buy a bigger screen than you ACTUALLY NEED!
SET IT UP PROPERLY (or get an expert to do it!!!!)

Edit (as a footnote)..... EVERY TV set I sold during my 45 years in TV retail was delivered and properly installed by either myself or my engineer at the time ... and I personally pre-"set-up" those I didn't deliver. Every set encountered during a Service call was re-"Set-up" as well. I was still selling ONLY CRT sets at my retirement.
Martin

[ June 13, 2014, 03:00 AM: Message edited by: Martin Jones ]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 13, 2014, 12:36 PM:

I have heard that the plasma TV's are better ...

Though we just upgraded to a 2000 year model 36 inch TV, (we have an LCD projector TV, "Sharp" brand, but rarely use it, just watching what was for 8 years, our 25 inch old school TV) ...

I am highly impressed with this Toshiba 36 inch. It has dolby surround even built into it, (two front speakers, two back speaks built into, well the back of the TV), and it is truly sharp and for a 36 inch, the lines of resolution are quite limited. That is, they don't distract much at all.

Not a bad investment for 30 some bucks! [Smile]

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on June 13, 2014, 12:52 PM:

Plasma has a couple of drawbacks for me. Picture is still possible to burn in, if for example you leave a signal paused, a logo in the same place all the time and so on. And the if you tip the screen over, you destroy it, not so good for me. Also, I didn't see any better picture on my friends Panasonic than with my Sony LED TV. If it's also being used for games, LED is better in my opinion

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on June 13, 2014, 12:58 PM:

Hi Vidar,

In my opinion, that whole burn-in phenomenon is over-stated.

The majority of the films I watch on mine are in 4:3 ratio after which one would expect some burn-in of those black bars at the side. However, there is no remnant of them at all. This has been verified by other friends who use Plasmas for their movie viewing.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on June 13, 2014, 01:03 PM:

Michael, there has been a subject on this on Belagian television. A man had his tv set screen ruined by the persistent of logos.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on June 13, 2014, 01:05 PM:

Hi, Dominique,

I can only speak from experience.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 13, 2014, 01:25 PM:

I would think you'd get a burn from bright images, not dark ones.

I've learned something from this. The colors on my wife's new HDTV are a little much (even the guys seem to be wearing lipstick...). It makes sense that the set is still in a factory preset for display. I've just been too lazy to fix it.

The thing that really gets me about the thing is it seems to need to "boot up" and there are several seconds of nothing happening after you power up.

We had TVs that did this 40 years ago: they had tubes in them!

[ June 15, 2014, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Steve Klare ]

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on June 13, 2014, 01:30 PM:

quote:
I would think you'd get a burn from bright images, not dark ones.

Perhaps you're correct.
[Smile]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 13, 2014, 01:37 PM:

Screen burn isn't so much of an issue with any modern plasma; it's the sort of thing which plagued early sets and has stuck as being perceived as a problem. It really isn't on new sets and if you're unlucky enough to burn something into the image, it will probably fade over a few days, or just run a full white screen for a few hours.

Anyway, the point is mostly academic as plasma is officially on the way out. OLED is the future and really is a fantastic technology which will see some of the best TV displays, well, ever.

From my point of view, plasma was generally always better than LCD because it had much better contrast and response time. Early LCD were truly dreadful; it was primarily a computer monitor display technology and really not up to the task of displaying decent quality video.

The whole "flat screen" thing really was, initially, a step backwards in image quality versus style.

However, in the last few years, several factors have changed that. The backlighting on LCD is now LED, either from each of the four corners, or in rows behind the image (array).

Array is better as it can introduce local dimming and thus improve contrast further. There is some confusion, however, as TV sets are now sold as LED when quite simply they are not. They are LCD technology, utilising LED backlighting; although the results are clearly better.

The other major factor is in processing power. This has increased substantially over the last few years, even on "budget" sets, and provides much better images on LCD displays.

This isn't to be confused with the gizmos associated with picture enhancement. Vidar is dead on; these are usually best switched off.

But, plasma remains the better display, although it generally comes with a higher price.

And Claus is right, correct calibration is essential. With an expensive set, this should be done professionally as the average user will simply not have the required tools for the job.

But even on a "cheap" set, running a basic calibration DVD will do wonders for contrast, brightness and chroma.

Also, the sad fact is that most modern displays look pretty darn good with current HD (1080i or 1080p), but many struggle with the old 480i or 576i, especially with compressed images, where again, CRT was really quite forgiving.

There is a lot to be said for CRT and quite simply there was nothing wrong with it, although pushing screen size above 36 inch would have been a problem. And presenting HD, although, not by any means impossible, would have probably resulted in very expensive sets.

But then, Martin is right, do you really need a 55 inch screen in the living room where you are pushing quality for the sake of size?

Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on June 13, 2014, 01:50 PM:

I've worked with monitors for many years now - and if you get a proper LED based screen, prefarably from a proper brand like Samsung, then you should be set. I've had my 46" Samsung LED for four years now - and I'm very happy with it. I also have a Samsung 32" LCD which I use for mostly console gaming, and very happy with that aswell.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on June 13, 2014, 01:51 PM:

From this it seems it's still a problem

http://plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-burnin.html

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 13, 2014, 02:00 PM:

Sorry to disagree, Vidar, but that seems to suggest that it isn't, or at least no worse than using CRT for certain purposes.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on June 13, 2014, 02:05 PM:

Sure, but when it says don't leave your TV on for more than an hour, it seem to be that it's a problem. I watch BBC Entertainment for much longer than that (though there are commercial breaks) ... For me, no plasma

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on June 13, 2014, 02:28 PM:

When I needed to get a new TV I looked at both Plasma and LCD. I bought a Sharp 42" LCD in the end (the lights are on the way out though). What put me off Plasma was the reflections on screen crap in a word.

Looked at a 4k ultra superdupa extra HD in Currys it was pin sharp even very close, but it looked VERY clinical. I would have liked to seen a film on to see what it looks like.

For some reason even the screen shots on the what did I threads look better and more filmy even though they are digital images.

Film does have that special magic more natural.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on June 13, 2014, 03:11 PM:

At the moment we have a Plasma, but later might move to LED they do look good. However no complaints with the Plasma, in fact compared with the old B/W TV from the past which sometimes needed a "WACK" on the side to get it to go we have never had things so good. [Smile]

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on June 13, 2014, 03:36 PM:

Klaus

I have the same TV as you and I absolutely love it.

PatD

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