8mm Forum: Help with decision for digital projection.

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Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 19, 2015, 05:09 AM:

As much as I don't like this subject too often, I now need to be realistic and move into the digital projection age along side of my cine, I will repeat that bit,
Along side of my cine. I am Not moving away from cine at all.

Last night I borrowed my Brothers old Acer X110P. It was purchased three years to do his history presentations.
I roughly set it all up in the front room and put cast away on DVD through.I have to say I now want to do this a bit more seriously & project Blu ray as well as DVD. I certainly wasn't comparing it to cine as in my own view they are two totally different hobbies. Cine has a look and quality all of its own and I love it, but there is more available, Much more, on discs so I think having the best of both worlds is the answer for us.
I have asked this before but times move very fast in the digital world and my question is simply this,
Please could someone tell me the minimum specs I should look for in both light output with a good big zoom plus input/output socket minimum specs, as my living room isn't that big. All help will be gratefully received.
My actual cine room will be staying as a cine room only. My digital projection will be purely for the living room & allow us to enjoy films not available on Cine.
I am of course fully aware that the one my Brother has is nowhere near spec'd up enough, it was a first time experiment, & I personally thought the picture, although pretty good, was compare to my cine film poor in sharpness but then this projector does not have a HDMI output which I know is a must. [Wink]

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on April 19, 2015, 05:25 AM:

Hi Tom, if it was me I would look for an LCD projector rather than DLP,a bit more filmic and no rainbow worries.

I tihnk just starting you would even find an XGA 4/3 machine very good, something like the NEC M230x has a great light out put and 1.7 x zoom lens so very handy and very nice picture. About £150 for a really nice 2nd hand one. Epsons are also really nice.

Or you could take a step up to WXGA, half as good again resolution in the 16/10 frame.

But a machine I would seriously consider as a superb starter is the Epson full HD EH-TW5200. I was in currys/PC W the other day and they were £10 under £500. 2000 lumens on full, 1400 on eco more than good enough in a darkended room.

They do have a limited zoom range at that price but for your cash they are superb and should be 2 years gaurantee.

As a starter machine this little beauty would simply blow your socks off.

[URL=http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/desktop-pc-monitors/monitor-projectors/projectors/epson-eh-tw5200-3d-gaming-projector-21841012-pdt.html?gclid=CP7IlYORgsUCFeiWtAodqkAAEg&srcid=19 8&cmp]http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/desktop-pc-monitors/monitor-projectors/projectors/epson-eh-tw5200-3d-gaming-projector-21841012-pdt.html?gclid=CP7IlYORgsUCFeiWtAodqkAAEg&srcid=1 98&cmp[/URL] id=ppc~gg~~~Exact&mctag=gg_goog_7904&s_kwcid=AL!3391!3!54854298860!!!g!98236817060!&ef_id=VTN-xQAABYk5TGl6:20150419101325:s#cat-0

Just click on the throw distance on the link below to see if it would fit your set up.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson_Europe-EH-TW5200.htm

Best Mark.

Posted by David Skillern (Member # 607) on April 19, 2015, 05:42 AM:

Hi Tom,

I would take Mark's advice - as you know i still collect 8mm - I've bought some items from you - but i've also bought 2 LCD projectors from Mark - one the Hitachi is on my living room ceiling linked via HDMI to Sky HD on a 10ft screen - excellent results and the other is in my Den which is an NEC - LCD and is linked to a yamaha DTS surround sound processor (5:1)the results on my 7ft screen are excellent. But in my Den - i have all my cine equipment on a permanent set-up - cine and digital together - the best of both worlds. Take the plunge - you won't regret it and as you said yourself - some films you just can't access on 8mm.

David

Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on April 19, 2015, 06:08 AM:

one of the best things you will ever do. i have 2 epson EHTW 3200 projectors. ABOUT £800 each.with a 3 year warranty. these are superb.might seem expensive initially, but cost of blu ray discs peanuts compared to film prices.especially features. pcture quality from these are stunning. but beware,you will start looking at your cine stuff in a different way.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on April 19, 2015, 06:32 AM:

Pauls right, and super 8 takes the first hit on that front, but really good digital makes even 16mm look a bit sad.

I can`t loose the love of the real stuff though good as Blu Ray etc is.

But mixed with film colecting its fantastic, and you will be surprised how filmic a look an LCD projector can provide.

Best Mark.

Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on April 19, 2015, 07:58 AM:

Hi Tom

"Silvoscreen" here - remember when I was almost tried at the stake for video projection all those years ago.lol.almost 10 years ago..people vilified me on silvoscreen. But anyway as Paul Adsett will tell you.(and Derek Simmonds discussed with regularly right up until he died). Video projection is a great assett...you can get some great titles..and watch them how you wish. I watched "Blade Runner" in 5.1 last weekend - 10 ft screen 16.9...stunning..BUT...and this is a but that I learnt the hard way..keep and enjoy all the 8mm/16mm you have. I regret letting go ogf mine and have built up a nice little 8mm collection again. Thanks to Mark Todd - a truly wonderful man. As Paul Adsett would say you then have the BEST of bot worlds..to me it is all about entertainment. ! P.M me if you want advice on purchasing V.P.'s Mark [Wink]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 19, 2015, 08:00 AM:

All great advice thank you, & I am making notes and taking all advice on board. Keep it coming, I prefer asking other collectors because shops will sell you what they want to get rid of and looking on the internet you tend to get opposing advice. [Wink]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on April 19, 2015, 10:27 AM:

Tom, I've been through several video projectors and I would strongly recommend that you look at the JVC range of D-ILA machines.

These produce some the best black levels and shadow detail of any projector out there, which is so crucial to giving you a filmic look; when you see Blu-ray on one of these there will be no going back.

There aren't cheap, starting at around £3000.00, but at least get a demonstration and compare.

Personally, I would still find a good quality hi-fi / home cinema retailer near you and go for demos. Not only can you then judge for yourself, but they will be there as a back up for any future problems or advice.

The likes of "Sevenoaks" can be excellent.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 19, 2015, 12:44 PM:

Thanks all, Rob i think i will defiantly go for some demo's

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on April 19, 2015, 03:17 PM:

Agree, Rob -- I have a JVC D-ILA projector in my home cinema, and have been very pleased with it. And Paul, you make excellent points.

Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on April 21, 2015, 05:22 AM:

Richer Sounds offers the Panasonic PT-AT 6000E at £2199 (save £800 on original price of £3000) with 5 year guarantee...
http://www.richersounds.com/product/projectors/panasonic/ptat6000e/pana-ptat6000e

Ebay item http://www.ebay.co .uk/itm/Panasonic-PT-AE8000U-PT-AT6000-3D-Home-Theater-projector-HDMI-1080P-Cinema-/261534566518?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3ce4acc876

offers what is APPARENTLY the same item at £1175.... a bargain?
No, because it is a US Import, which means the warranty cannot be invoked in the UK and the importers say the purchaser must return it to the US for warranty service!!!!! International 4 year warranty available for USD 140 extra... brings it up to about £1250.... with all the uncertainties of imported items.

Other alternative is.... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-PT-AT600 0E-LCD-projector/dp/B009JM2K5I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429611091&sr=8-1&keywords=ptat6000e

£75 more, but 3 year (2 0n lamp)Panasonic European Guarantee (valid in UK). Imported from Germany.

A lot cheaper than Richer Sounds (very good company!). I've ordered one as I already have several pairs of compatible glasses, which is a great advantage... 'cos they're not cheap!

Martin

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on April 21, 2015, 07:02 AM:

This is the one I want one day:
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Product.do?sku=V11H335120

Built in DVD and everything else! Can project super far and bright!!
Cheers,
Matt

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on April 21, 2015, 09:41 AM:

At the end of the day you're going to have to decide which filmic look you're going after. Yes, LCD has never looked better, but there are some things it just can't do. Well, you'd say the same of DLP since only the $$$$$ 3-chip projectors don't have the rainbow effect. I hate the rainbow effect also, but it might just be better to live with at times.

So having recently watched Interstellar on a Ben-Q SH910, I want to throw in a differing opinion. Why that model? It's what the rental house had. The steep 30-degree rake (conference room projector) was a little tough to work with, it's too bright so I ran it in economy mode and on the "warm" setting, and left all the other adjustments alone. Having done that, the result was absolutely spectacular. Color was amazing. Clarity was astounding. And the high-contrast space scenes rivaled the Imax 70mm film presentation in punch and brightness. I don't think LCD can do that. Yes, it makes a tough act to follow for 8mm or 16mm, but the "repertoire" is completely different, as is the fun of handling film, so there's no danger of giving up on that yet.

Whatever you decide, if you're going to spend that kind of money on a projector, I hope you can just give it a good viewing first someplace.

That's my 2c, more like 5 or 10.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on April 22, 2015, 12:11 PM:

I was about to write a post regarding the merits of DLP, LCD and LCOS technologies, but found this on the net, which just about sums it all up and is pretty fair and accurate given my experiences;

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/dlp-vs-lcd-vs-lcos-projector-tech-pros-and-cons/

Well worth a proper read.

All I would add is that you always need to calibrate the projector, as out of the box it generally will not be right.

Professional calibration is good, but costly, although you can make certain contrast, brightness, colour temperature and colour adjustments yourself with some simple aids and the result, even with a very good projector and a bit of DIY can be like chalk and cheese.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on April 22, 2015, 04:54 PM:

I`m a hopeless Nerd and adjust the machine bit time for each film myself, I`m as bad on the TV as well.

Best Mark.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on April 22, 2015, 05:17 PM:

Mark, you must calibrate your display - TV or Projection.

When done correctly, disappointments are then either in your display or cinematographer.

Seriously, no display should need re-adjustment from film to film.

Tell me what your problems are and we can help each other as well as others here...

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on April 22, 2015, 05:25 PM:

Hi Rob, not a full calibration I just Nerdy wise adjust all the vasrious bits and bobs etc.

I know the JVC`s are superb but I think even a 2nd hand £150 odd nice LCD HDMI one would give Tom a surprise with BR.

Best Mark.

Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on April 23, 2015, 01:35 AM:

yes i agree there. i remember the first LCD projector i bought. a epson ehtw20. 720p output only and cost me brand new about £350 some years ago. no HDMI. but i remember even with that i was so impressed with the picture qualty. not only that the picture size i could get when compared to even using a 1 inch lens on my ELF projector. there was a vast difference with the epson.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 24, 2015, 01:14 PM:

Thanks to everyone for your comments and help, I am currently reading all the posts and links and doing a little of research as well. I shall eventually let you all know which one I go for. [Wink]

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on April 24, 2015, 07:15 PM:

I learned a few things from that link, such as LCoS having the ability to have darker blacks than DLP, for example. Tom, thanks for keeping us posted!

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on April 26, 2015, 03:57 AM:

I recommend Panasonic, as I always do, for video projectors. They also made the best VCRs too. The triple LCD machines are pretty good. On black levels I would say sometimes the contrast can look a little shallow. BUT I am sure we have many super 8 prints and even 16mm that are a little washed out and it is nothing like that, really, not from my experience. Have the best of both worlds, film and video projection, it shouldn't be an either/or decision. As said above, keep the film and film projectors even if you have an initial 'oh wow, and a feature is only £15!' reaction.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 26, 2015, 04:18 AM:

You are so correct Steven on each point raised. Only wish I had you to advise me back in 93 when I sold the lot back to Derann to eventually purchase a Sharp XVZ1E a few years on.

What a mistake that was, now in hindsight!

I have always been very satisfied with the Panasonic range of projectors right back to my first which was the PTAE 900. I am now on my third and not a moments bother off any of them.

Posted by David Skillern (Member # 607) on April 26, 2015, 04:24 AM:

I second that sentiment,

I love watching films on a big screen whether lcd Blu Ray or Super 8 - but yesterday as I sat watching the great Hylda Baker in "She Knows you know" on super 8 - even with imperfections. I had a little smile to myself and thought isn't this hobby great. Both mediums can sit side by side.

David

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on April 26, 2015, 04:24 AM:

Hello Tom

We have used various video projectors here at home since purchasing our first one in 1999 (a NEC VT440 for £2k ouch!) currently using a 3d Optoma DLP projector and very pleased with it.

Definitely do your research and take time to choose before taking the plunge. Also remember the 'law of diminishing returns' ie: a piece of kit that costs ten time more is not always ten times better! Your eyes will tell you what's best for you and there is definitely no need to re-mortgage these days to get a quality video projected image.

Once you have found the model you want I would recommend you input the make and model number into this retailer website:

http://www.nigelohara.com/

I tried a couple of models on there last night and their system automatically beats any other web price (the initial price looks higher then click on the actual item and the price will adjust down) they give you free courier delivery, and they offer six months interest free credit (sounds like Derann in the old days).

Hope this helps and please...... as others have said still keep your 'reel films' and equipment too as sprockets are in the blood and you will surely miss playing with film if you sell up.

Kevin

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on April 26, 2015, 04:16 PM:

Last week I picked up a digital projector from my local Goodwill store. It's a Viewsonic PJ550 I've never had a digital projector before and was curious to what to expect. I'm actually very impressed with this little unit even though it's not new or even a top of the line model. I wish it had a longer throw lens so it could sit it back with my other film projectors, but it has over 500 hours left on the lamp and I think it will be a nice addition to my cine room.

Viewsonic PJ550

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 26, 2015, 04:19 PM:

thanks again everyone & Kevin, rest assured we are keeping 99.9% of our cine films. It is purely for the projection of films that are unavailable on super 8.
The good thing is we are only selling the films we really no longer want and hopefully these will pay for the digital projector. [Wink]

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on April 28, 2015, 05:38 AM:

Just looked at your Youtube video, Janice. Great results! I think you got a bargain there. Video projectors are much better value than buying a large flat panel TV in my opinion.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on April 28, 2015, 06:10 AM:

Hello Tom
We used to supply Hitachi as they were so reliable and never had one back faulty. Not sure what they are like these days but reliability would be quite near the top 10 wants for me today. Benq seem very popular now.
Regards

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