8mm Forum: What about this lamp!!!

This is topic What about this lamp!!! in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on April 29, 2015, 03:13 AM:

Does anyone have experience of this lamp? It's LED 12 - 24v and produces an incredibly bright light. What interests me ( and I'm sure other members) is that it is a cold light and ideal for converting innumerable old projectors. It's not the unit I'm interested in but where to get the LED bulb. Any ideas?
POWERFIX® Akku-LED-Strahler PLS 10

I tried to add this as a link! But it's not working for some reason. Can someone tell me why?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 29, 2015, 03:31 AM:

So far with led technology Terry, it is not that there is insufficient brightness to use this new method in projectors,it is just that usually because of the shape and size of led lamps, you cannot get the intensity of the light output from the lamps to focus just where you want it like you can with halogen filament lamps with a cold light mirror.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on April 29, 2015, 05:03 AM:

Andrew
Yes I understand that with the usual LED's that is probably the case, but I think if you got your hands on one of these you would agree that this particular one could be ideal, especially with a suitable mirror/reflector to direct the beam. I know that some high intensity LED's use multiple lights but this is different because it is a concentrated spot of light which is blindingly bright if you look at it directly. it is comparable to the concentrated spot of light given by the filament of say, a Halogen bulb, - but BRIGHTER! and virtually cold! Amazing. It really is worth investigating further.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 29, 2015, 05:07 AM:

Wow that sounds amazing Terry, I haven't seen anything like that yet. I do hope you can post the link or type the full URL.
I would be very interested to look into this as an option for my own pj.
Thanks for posting Terry, sounds great! Cannot wait for further details on here. [Smile]

Is it a portable outdoor spot lamp Terry distributed by Lidl?

If it is, it boasts 620lumens output with a colour temperature of 5k and with a 20,000hr life expectancy and consuming just 8.5watts of energy!!!

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on April 29, 2015, 05:45 AM:

Andrew
Yes that's the one. I tried to copy and paste but it didn't work. Don't know why.

LED SOLAR SPOTLIGHT £29.99 @ Lidl - Hot UK Deals

10w Outdoor Portable Hi Power White LED Work Light Rechargeable FloodLight IP65
£17.99

I'm trying to get a link but I must be doing something wrong!

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on April 29, 2015, 06:41 AM:

If it will fit it might work well with older non halogen projectors that used condenser lenses to focus the light through the gate.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 29, 2015, 06:52 AM:

Lets see if this works Terry.

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl =en&sl=de&u=http://www.lidl.de/de/powerfix-akku-led-strahler-pls-10-a1/p195388&prev=search

Its just difficult to tell what the actual lamp looks like and what physical size it is unless someone has actually purchased one of these?

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on April 29, 2015, 08:22 AM:

I have a plumber doing some work for me and he has one - which is how my interest started. The dimensions of the casting that it is mounted in is 4.5" x 3.5" x 1.5" deep so if the LED unit itself can be removed you can see that it should be small enough for a variety of uses, especially in the conversion/replacement of old incandescent lamps. It would be great if we could find the supplier of the LED that is used in this appliance. Perhaps we could ask Maurice to research it. He is magic at that sort of thing.
M A U R I C E - help us - Do your stuff!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 29, 2015, 09:37 AM:

Good idea Terry! Hopefully Maurice will come to our aid. [Smile]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on April 29, 2015, 10:03 AM:

As far as I can see, it does not have a bulb but some form of chip, which may or may not be replaceable.
As a unit it's too large for a film projector.
http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/80492-led-floodlight-ip65-10w-depth-85mm-ip-nema-rating-ip65-length-115mm-width-115mm-colour-black-external-depth-85mm-external-length-height-105mm-suppl y-voltage-ac-max-265v-supply-voltage-ac-min-85v-supply-voltage-v-ac-240v-ledfl10b.html

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on April 29, 2015, 01:52 PM:

Thanks Maurice
Yes as a unit it is too large but it is only the chip or LED that is what we could use and if that is only the size of the yellow square in the middle of the reflector then it would be perfect. Obviously there must be some sort of driver behind the reflector, but I can't imagine that would be very big. I think I will buy one, dismantle it and find out. I find it quite exciting because the light output is outstanding for a low voltage led. It has to be seen to be believed.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on April 29, 2015, 02:59 PM:

Terry
Have a chat with your plumber and see if he has an instruction book or similar which might give some details of the light unit's components.
If the "bulb" was obtainable separately it would need some kind of power supply.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on April 29, 2015, 03:45 PM:

Maurice
The simple answer is no he hasn't . But the power supply is a rechargeable battery and the supply is stated as 12 -24v on the unit. The battery merely supplies voltage to the 'driver' of the LED, so a 12/24v 1amp DC supply from a relatively small transformer would seem to be all that is needed. Incredible that a 10watt 12v 1amp led can produce such a bright light. It has to be seen to be believed.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on April 29, 2015, 04:02 PM:

I have also seen this http://www.lyco.co.uk/shatter-resistant-50w-led-floodlight-daylight-pir.html which states that it has the output equivalent to a 400w Halogen lamp, there is a warm white one that is slightly cheaper. One for 16mm projectors perhaps.

I also think I saw a rechargeable one as described above in Faversham market Saturday, I can't remember the price.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 29, 2015, 04:43 PM:

Even if this particular lamp does not provide us all with a practical solution to extra brightness over our halogen lamps, there is no doubt about it, it won't be far off before we are all switching to 20,000hr led alternatives that offer huge brightness levels whilst offering very little load on our ageing transformers.
Very exciting to see are these advances in LED lighting technology.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on April 30, 2015, 02:35 AM:

Terry it is a really good point this my friend.

These lamps are really handy and I have used them in the good old Eumig for just checking films through. I put the projector close to a 15" screen and you can get enough light out for print checking. At 99p each (pound shops have them) its a low energy low cost way of saving your best lamps. [Wink]

The LED lamps are getting much brighter most theatres I film in are now tooled up with LED stage lighting.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on April 30, 2015, 04:11 AM:

I have a couple of smallish high power cree torches I bought from ebay, proper Am-tech fully packaged ones that have the single cree LED chip. They run on 3 x 1.5 v AAA bateries and last a very long time.

Best thing is the little front unit with the cree chip in comes off seperately and is quite small, and could easily be fitted in to a lamp house, even better it has a zoom function to allow focus of the light so you could move that until the light is just right for the gate, and I suppose put a liitle white dot or two on the side to mark that place, and just run 2 very small thin wires out to the little self contained battery holding unit that comes out of the torch. No messing with transformers or mains etc.

With it zoomed right down you can see hundres of yards, and less zoomed out still a long way and well lit.

These were £5.99 posted and are superb in thier own right.

I`m pretty sure they would work well.

Best Mark.

They are 3 watt but you can get 5w and 12w as well etc. There are lots of chinesey cheap ones as well. I expect the ones with a zoom are the best for the job.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310524507290?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageNam e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I`ll just check the front lamp unit does screw off this one, but the majority of these cree types they do.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on April 30, 2015, 05:43 AM:

Following on from Mark's post, this looks interesting as an idea.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tech-S8080-Cree-Rechargeable-Torch/dp/B00NXYOYWU/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1430390046&sr=8-16&keywords=am+tech+led+torch

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on April 30, 2015, 02:49 PM:

I was hoping some of our American cousins would jump on this topic and enlighten us as to what this new LED technology offers. What is this little yellow chip that emits such a bright light? I've seen Cree mentioned with some of the products. Is this the name of the chip used? Whadya say USA?

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on April 30, 2015, 02:54 PM:

Spend some time going through this site.
http://www.cree.com/

Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on April 30, 2015, 03:23 PM:

I love discussions like this - advancement..my goodness I used to be nailed to the "cross" back in the "Silvoscreen" days with my website 10 years ago...with my forecasts. Must say though...I enjoy posting here. best to all. [Smile]

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on April 30, 2015, 04:16 PM:

Maurice
Thanks but it doesn't address the single chip issue but seems to cover multi LED lamps. I'm more interested in the single 'yellow chip' technology which seems to be the way ahead for projector lamp replacement/conversion.

Posted by Bryan Chernick (Member # 1998) on April 30, 2015, 10:29 PM:

I would like to find one that will fit my editor, I think most editors could use a brighter light.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 01, 2015, 02:23 AM:

You are right Mark our sort of hobby or passion I should say is still evolving, blimey I discovered an auxiliary audio output in the back of an Elf yesterday. Still learning!

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on May 01, 2015, 02:44 AM:

Found it at last! This is the unit that these super bright LED's use

Citizen Chip-on-Board (COB) LEDs | LED Components | Marl
www.leds.co.uk › Products
High brightness, energy efficient chip-on-board LEDs manufactured by Citizen Electronics Co. Ltd. and distributed by Marl to the UK.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on May 01, 2015, 02:48 AM:

Are these the ones?
http://www.leds.co.uk/products/components/citizen_cob_leds

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on May 01, 2015, 03:04 AM:

Maurice
Yes the're the ones and they come in a variety of voltages and power and can be purchased with flying leads, so it would appear that all that is required is a suitable mounting and power supply. The applications are unlimited. What we need is a technically qualified member to guide us on how to make a practical unit that we can use.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 01, 2015, 03:44 AM:

Some of these look as though they could do a job for sure if mounted inside the usual mirrors, but they need a voltage supply of 31 or 34.7v according to the ref tables for high luminance varieties.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on May 01, 2015, 04:43 AM:

The CLL163 24W class operates on 230 volts. It is 32 x 25 x 1.7 mm. The circuit diagram shows it has a rectifier in its circuit.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 01, 2015, 06:43 AM:

Yes quite right Maurice! Maybe that could do a job for us. It would be nice to find some high luminosity 12v,15v and 24v versions of these though. Then no rewiring of the lamp circuits would be required. [Smile]

Posted by Steve Carter (Member # 4821) on May 01, 2015, 09:04 AM:

I have been thinking about led lamps for a while, These 12v MR16's look near, what do forum members think?
web page 12v MR16 led bulb

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on May 01, 2015, 09:41 AM:

It seems to me that LED technology is evolving very quickly now and will create large savings in our electricity bills as well. There are already LED versions of almost all domestic light bulbs including dimmable versions. I hope it will not be long before they are available for projectors including video projector lamps.
The street lamps in my area are already being replaced by LED versions and they provide just as much light as the ones they are replacing. Looking at the illustrations on this thread, I think they may be more suitable for replacing the lamps in machines which used the old prefocus tungsten lamps with the condenser lens behind the gate. The rear reflector mirror would be superfluous as its original use was to reflect the light from the lamp filament, which the LED chip does not appear to have. Who is going to be the first to try it?!! Ken Finch.

Posted by Richard C Patchett (Member # 974) on May 01, 2015, 12:39 PM:

Greetings
The LED might be better ?, But what is the heat rateing that puts out in theses lamps?
You sure don't want to melt your film.
I my self would stay with the ones that are called for
Just my throught.

Posted by Steve Carter (Member # 4821) on May 01, 2015, 01:19 PM:

Well the LED GU10's run a lot cooler than the halogens that were in use before in my spot light fittings.A 12v LED driver is about £3.00, so it's very inexpensive to experiment with.Prices are really getting lower every time I look.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 01, 2015, 01:33 PM:

LED's don't really give off any heat at all so in time you may even be able to eliminate fan noise from most machines.

As far as the LED GU10's are concerned, I tried fitting 3 as a replacement for the 50w Halogen GU10's that were fitted originally in a display cabinet in the home.

The result was a very cold blueish very dim light. I couldn't wait to change them back to 3x 50w Halogens again.

The LED GU10's were the brightest available at the time and were supposed to be of equivalent brightness to the 50w Halogen equivalents, but I have to say, they were nothing like.

They are still sat in their partially opened packaging in a cupboard with 19,999 hours left on them. A complete waste of 20 quid I have to say!

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on May 01, 2015, 04:24 PM:

Because they do not give off any heat is the reason they are so interesting as an application for projectors. If they meet the requirements, which it looks like they do, then it could make existing lamps obsolete. No more having to pay exorbitant prices for obsolete bulbs plus the advantage that these LED's are much brighter and last an eternity. We all love old projectors but it is the old lamps that are always the main drawback in keeping them alive and not just on a shelf as a display item. Most of us 'oldies' hate change but this has to be a change that will serve our interest. I will certainly pursue it. They are cheap and no high voltages to worry about. So why not!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 01, 2015, 04:52 PM:

When you think about it, if a modern manufactured cine projector was designed today, they ought to be as silent running as your digital counterparts.

You wouldn't need any cooling fans if an led suitable equivalent can be found. The shutter claw noise could be eliminated altogether by use of stepper motors or servo motors etc. So no noise, perfect 25fps sync to match your digital soundtracks and whisper quiet whilst bright as an Elmo Xenon.

I wish a company besides Fumeo would think about making a modern Super 8mm projector for the remaining enthusiasts.
A batch of 50 or so of these would do us all just perfectly!

There is so much that could be improved upon even the very best of what exists by using the very best of the modern day technologies.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on May 02, 2015, 01:23 AM:

Andrew
Idealogically that would fine but somehow I think we would miss these noises, especially the noise of film through the gate. You are quite right though, they could be made much quieter and more efficient. Sadly I feel the demand is not there for a manufacturer to produce one in sufficient numbers to make it profitable.

Posted by Steve Carter (Member # 4821) on May 02, 2015, 06:13 AM:

I have found some 15w MR16 12v LED white light lamps, which are about 150w equivalent, if I drive them with a separate LED driver does anyone think it will be OK?.Driver, new socket and lamp it will come in under £10.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on May 02, 2015, 08:19 AM:

Steve
Is this to which you refer?
http://www.bltdirect.com/led-mr16-cluster-white-1-8-watt-21-leds-15w-alternative?adcid=pla&gclid=CIqtkqyRo8UCFSQewwodMLkA2w

Posted by Steve Carter (Member # 4821) on May 02, 2015, 12:04 PM:

Maurice it's this one, 15w led that gives approx 150w of normal light.
web page 15watt MR16

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on May 02, 2015, 01:56 PM:

Not the same led chip technology Steve but it might work. Let us know how you get on.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on May 03, 2015, 05:36 AM:

I don't think the lamps that Steve has found will be suitable for projectors as they seem to have a wide coverage which would not present a lot of their light to a small film frame.

The lamps which Terry found would be eminently suitable for older projectors which have a condenser lens assembly which help distribution of the light.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on May 03, 2015, 06:25 AM:

I think you would do betetr with nthe little front unit off a torch, so you can zoom the light to just right and run an easy battery power source in.

You`d be surprised how bright these single chip LED cree lights are.

I can live without the fan noise and you`d still have the motor and gate noise.

Best Mark.

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on May 03, 2015, 07:44 AM:

It is nice to know you agree with me Maurice!! (My post of 1st May)
The LED replacements for Halogens with integral mirrors currently available are no use because they have bundled LEDs which cannot be focused on the gate. Only the light from one or two of the cluster would pass through the aperture, the rest would be illuminating the rear of the aperture plate. Incidentally, I have replaced all our kitchen mains halogen 50watt bulbs with the LED equivalents, purchased from Homebase, and they are just as bright. Ken Finch.

Posted by Steve Carter (Member # 4821) on May 03, 2015, 09:23 AM:

Ken/Maurice, what about one of these; Xenon White if I dismantled an old halogen and used the mirror as a base for this small bulb???

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on May 03, 2015, 11:30 AM:

Steve
It would probably work, but why go to all the trouble?

Posted by Steve Carter (Member # 4821) on May 03, 2015, 12:09 PM:

It's just my inquisitive mind Maurice,I'm going to try one in my old battery powered Horipet De-luxe std 8 projector, to get better battery life and brighter light out-put,that was the bad thing about it when I was a kid, back then there were no 'cheap' mains adaptors which I could rig up to it, paper round money didn't go that far, and I was more interested in saving for 50ft Vistapak movies.A friend made some extension arms for it, then it would take 200 footers, but bad light out-put and very poor gate which marked the films to the point of no return, but those scratches could not be seen until it was shown on a 'Big Boy's' projector, then I was horrified at the damage the Horipet had inflicted on the films.

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