8mm Forum: ... lossless format after .avi ...

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Posted by Earl J. Moniz (Member # 4853) on June 15, 2015, 03:57 PM:

Hello everyone,
discussion today in our Special Operations Command History Support Center (Archives) centers around a lossless video format since .avi may not be around forever... and it may not fulfill the requirements of long-term digital video storage for more recently introduced video formats.
Claims here only to introduce a discussion for archival purposes without any real scientific proof ... we (our lead archivist and I) agree on .avi for video; .tif for imagery; and .wav for audio.
We are currently in the process of converting our 16 mm film artifacts (from the 1930s forward) into digital form.
We are trying to figure out what to do with them once we have them in digital form - the most efficient, reliable, and long-term techniques.

Please jump in and give us any ideas, suggestions, recommendations, techniques, solutions, or otherwise share your oceans of notions with us to help us get through our dilemma...
(grin)

Thanks for any assistance. . .

Until that time. . . Earl J.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on June 15, 2015, 04:54 PM:

The .avi is just a container extension. What codec are you currently using for your archives or are you using lossless/no compression? AVI lossless codecs I've used have been HuffyUV, Lagarith, and BlackMagic HD. What makes you think that AVI will go away?

[ June 16, 2015, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Earl J. Moniz (Member # 4853) on June 17, 2015, 10:36 AM:

Hello Janice,
thank you for the response.

quote:
The .avi is just a container extension. What codec are you currently using for your archives or are you using lossless/no compression? AVI lossless codecs I've used have been HuffyUV, Lagarith, and BlackMagic HD. What makes you think that AVI will go away?

We convert our captured images over to .avi through Sony Movie Studio Platinum 8.0 (yep, I'm a Sony Vegas fan - been one since Vegas 4.0)... not sure which CODEC Sony uses.
Our archivist and I agree on methods for storing our "essence" versions of digital files based on our decisions over what we need here in the office and what we can "predict" for the future.

* * *
Yes, indeed, you hit the nail on the head; we are looking for the best resolution we can get stored in a lossless and uncompressed format.
NARA and The Library of Congress have both yet to determine a standard for the rest of us in government service. We make our best guess at what we think we need and can use in the future.
We use .avi, .tif, and .wav as our baseline formats.
* * *
In our ignorance, we believed that .avi was a Microsoft proprietary format...
much like some people believe that .pdf is an Adobe proprietary format...
In any case, our primary factors are lossless and uncompressed for the essence (original images/video/audio) of our files.
We eventually make faster loading, more easily transported, and easier to store versions for researchers (.mp4, .mov, et al.).
So, although some think that Microsoft "might eventually" abandon support for .avi, it probably isn't going anywhere for a really long time. (grin)

Our real question is:
are there any other lossless and uncompressed formats that could be used for archival purposes...?

Any help and guidance is certainly welcomed.
Thank you very much...

Until that time. . . Earl J.

[ June 26, 2015, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Earl J. Moniz ]

Posted by Earl J. Moniz (Member # 4853) on June 25, 2015, 09:13 AM:

Thank you Janice,
those programs look promising. . .
I've passed it along to the archivists as well
to give us a baseline around which to conduct
our future discussions.

Thank you again for your comments ... and links.

* * *
To complete the record, I never heard about .avi
going away from any sources I follow;
the archivist mentioned it in passing...
then in further investigation, he admitted that
he misread the article which created his notion
that ends up being way off base... (sigh)
[Smile]

Until that time. . . Earl J.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 25, 2015, 12:26 PM:

The one problem I have with avi is that it takes up so much danged room just to make the file. Do any of you know of a way to copy in avi format, but then, get it to be a smaller file?

Every old VHSC 30 minute cassette takes up around 25 or so GB for the file, just to make the copy. Absolutely brilliant quality, but it fills a PC awfully quick!

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on June 25, 2015, 04:06 PM:

Osi...If you use the DV-Format Video, HDV (1080i) codec 3.6 MB/sec...1 hour = 13GBs. This is about the smallest file size you are going to get for a high quality HD output. If you use SD (720x480) it would be about 11GB/hr. The Lagarith lossless codec is around 30GB/hr and the HuffyUV about 40GB/hr...both much larger. You just need to determine the quality with which you are satisfied.

Here is a disk-space calculator that might help:
http://studiopost.com/contact/tech-specs/calculating-disk-space-requirements

Since I got my BlackMagic capture card...I have been capturing and archiving using the M-JPEG codec (the codec is available without the card). It has an .avi extension and the file size is substantially smaller than uncompressed...but slightly larger than HDV. However the visual quality is excellent and great for editing.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on June 25, 2015, 05:13 PM:

If I recall correctly all avi means is Audio & Video Interleaved, that is a combined file of sound and picture (in sync hopefully).

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