8mm Forum: My dvd 's rubbish

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Posted by Keith Wilson (Member # 4888) on December 01, 2015, 04:11 PM:

I tried to watch some dvd's I recorded years ago with my Phillips dvd recorder and now they won't play not even on the machine that recorded them is this a common thing ? the recorder still works fine records dvds and plays them back and the newly recorded dvds play on any machine I have ,the old dvd's all look ok and have been stored in a dark cool cuboard .

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 01, 2015, 04:22 PM:

Copied discs dont last as long as their professionallly made counterparts Keith.
They use different methods to create the image on the disc.

[ December 02, 2015, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on December 01, 2015, 05:06 PM:

Try ripping the old DVD images to your computer and then re-burning the image to a new disk to see if that helps.

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on December 01, 2015, 05:29 PM:

Hi Keith, Andrew is quite right about the difference. The home recorded discs can be affected by light in the same way as coloured
photographs did. I have always been advised to keep the recorded discs in a case recorded side down so that it is not constantly exposed to light. Also handle only by the edges,avoid scratching the surface and store in a fairly even temperature. I have also found that some makes are much better than others for stability and long life. Do you use a cleaning discs in your recorder from time to time ? Giving the disc a clean with disc cleaning pads also helps. Dis you "finalise" the discs when you recorded them?
Please forgive me if I am "teaching Grandma to suck eggs"! P.S. Just an extra thought. The early Phillips recorders used DVD+R discs, and other makes used DVD-R. This often caused playback problems through incompatibility. Ken Finch.

Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on December 01, 2015, 06:31 PM:

Chalk another one up for film! I have 60 year old home-made films that still play perfectly!

Posted by Simon Balderston (Member # 5106) on December 01, 2015, 06:51 PM:

no disrespect to dvd but long live film and it does

Posted by William Olson (Member # 2083) on December 01, 2015, 07:03 PM:

Ah, the mysteries of DVD's. Sometimes there's just no telling why a DVD won't play. If, as you say, the discs won't play on the machine that recorded them, then I'm stumped. Are you sure there is something recorded on the discs? Sorry for the stupid question. Since you say that this machine plays and records other discs, the discs in question should play on their native machine even if the discs haven't been finalized. You can try recovering them using your computer and an available program (which may cost you). Of course, there's no guarantee that this will work. Funny, my 40+ year old Super 8 film still plays beautifully.

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on December 01, 2015, 07:30 PM:

SPECTRE the latest James Bond film was shot on Panavision then transferred to digital for distribution. That should tell you something about film vs DVD.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 02, 2015, 04:55 PM:

Professional discs are imprinted by creating light and dark shaded data areas from root and crest physical impressions. Home burning methods simply mimic this process by light and dark laser burned areas of data on the discs that cannot, or do not, even attempt a permanent Job.

Even a professionally made disc doesn't last a lifetime so anything you wish to keep for good, transfer to modern day high capacity external hard drives that can easily be upgraded, as and when, and are cheap enough nowadays.

The data can be easily transferred onto a large USB data stick to view via a modern day home cinema amp via a home cinema digital projector whenever you like.

This method proves far more reliable than any non professional created DVD discs.

[ December 03, 2015, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on December 03, 2015, 02:47 AM:

Yes, I've heard it said that professionally anything that is held in digital form has to be on at least 3 digital media in three separate locations to be considered safe. Also they should be transferred to new storage devices every 7-10 years to prevent degradation.

The cost of long term storage is greater than that for film!!!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 03, 2015, 05:27 AM:

Not sure about that one Brian, especially in this day and age, but you're entirely correct about providing a failsafe environment for Digital media.

It is so cheap now to store data, for the important things in life, why not back them up at least 3 times over?

[ December 03, 2015, 06:31 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on December 03, 2015, 05:39 AM:

Features for showing in cinemas arrive on a hard drive. Is this a safe storage media?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 03, 2015, 05:52 AM:

I'd say so Maurice for the time they use them for. Just about anything would be ok digitally for a matter of weeks I'd say.

Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on December 03, 2015, 10:46 AM:

I thought professionally made discs were supposed to last a lifetime if taken care of (e.g. you don't scratch them.)

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 03, 2015, 11:40 AM:

I'm afraid not in many many cases Joseph. People have reported already CD's and DVDs that already will not play despite the technology not being that old relatively.

Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on December 03, 2015, 04:41 PM:

I knew that some Laser discs suffered from rot due to a manufacturing defect (I've got an odd one or two) but I must admit I'd never heard anthing said about dvd's failing. Now, I can understand why hollywood originates it's productions on film and distributes them on hard drives. It seems to me that if digital failure was the only problem, then that alone would be enough to deal with, but add the onward march of formats and it starts to become a minefield.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 03, 2015, 07:35 PM:

I have had several DVD'S from Warner Bros.and Criterion that have suddenly become unplayable after about 5 years, and none of them have a mark on them. All have that brownish 'coffee stain' appearance caused by oxidation of the aluminum reflective layer of the disc. It seems that disc failure can literally happen almost overnight.

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on December 05, 2015, 07:00 AM:

I have always advised people who have their cine films transferred to DVD not to dispose of them, with advice regarding storage for both media. The problem with the constantly "Upgrading" of digital media is the same as it was with cine film i.e. incompatibility of hardware. When the format changes, so does the hardware. The same applies to computers. Whenever a new operating system is launched, programmes purchased for the preceding OS, no longer work and have to be replaced. Another problem with digital that no one else has mentioned is the constant changes of connection sockets and leads, sometimes making perfectly usable equipment obsolete. Another symptom of the "throw away " society we now live in. Ken Finch. [Frown]

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on December 07, 2015, 12:55 PM:

You so right Ken. Over years how many times have I heard customers say after transfer they would now bin the original films after transfer.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 07, 2015, 02:03 PM:

We could always provide them with a dustbin Lee. I'm always up for free film! [Wink]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 08, 2015, 12:57 PM:

" I have had several DVD'S from Warner Bros.and Criterion that have suddenly become unplayable after about 5 years, and none of them have a mark on them. All have that brownish 'coffee stain' appearance caused by oxidation of the aluminum reflective layer of the disc. It seems that disc failure can literally happen almost overnight. "

I've run into that too, Paul. I wonder if that is some kind of "expiration" that's planned into the discs in order to insure that you have to buy the next up to date version of the film?

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on December 08, 2015, 01:36 PM:

It's worthwhile and permissible to backup commercial DVD's as a second copy.

There are companies that manufacture blank recordable DVD media,
that is unreliable.

Verbatim makes a good disc, and gold plated discs are good for archival long term storage.

Gold Media is reliable for medical purposes.

Verbatim web page

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 1183) on December 08, 2015, 02:01 PM:

Commercially pressed CD's and DVD's should out live you. Laser Rot does not effect them as they are manufactured differently than LaserDiscs.

I have CD's purchased in 1983 that still play fine. In fact, out over 600 CD's, only 2 have ever degraded over time, both due to a known manufacturing defect.

As too CDR's, and DVDR (+ and -), each manufacturer of the blanks uses their own formula, and some are more reliable than others. Blanks for business computer backup are generally labeled for how long the manufacturer believes the disc will hold it's data without degradation. Consumer blanks not so much.

Exposure to sunlight will definitely shorten the life of any CDR/DVDR.

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