8mm Forum: Tape to use to hold down film leaders

This is topic Tape to use to hold down film leaders in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on June 29, 2016, 08:52 AM:

I'm seeking some of the fairly thick tape tape that people in the USA commonly use to tape down leader. It's reusable and doesn't leave sticky deposits. I don't want to continue resorting to using masking tape, etc.

I have NEVER seen any film/supplies dealer in the UK offer this tape! Can anyone in the UK recommend a specific type and a UK source, or perhaps a source in Europe?

Posted by Michael Lattavo (Member # 4280) on June 29, 2016, 10:22 AM:

I use white medical tape.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 29, 2016, 10:32 AM:

Urbanski Film offer 1/2" PAPER TAPE. White. "Great for film ends, does not leave a sticky residue under repeated use. Good to write on for titles on film or cans." $5.40 per roll.
http://www.urbanskifilm.com/supplies.html

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on June 29, 2016, 03:25 PM:

Thanks, Maurice. Sounds good, but the trouble is that Urbanski have a minimum international order of $40. The last time I ordered from them, I invited a couple of friends to contribute to the order, and then I got stuck with the customs bill when it arrived!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 29, 2016, 05:24 PM:

Adrian, if this is for 16mm film try using Scotch "Magic" tape.

I used to use this stuff in a laboratory environment (non film related) and its perfect for having just enough tack to stick whatever you're wanting it to stick whilst not leaving a trace of any sticky residue (very easily removed).

Your film will show no signs of ever being stuck down using a sticky gum like substance.

For 8mm,personally, I don't believe you can beat plastic "Bonum" style film clips, but for everything else, why not try this?

I doubt you'd be disappointed.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on June 29, 2016, 06:42 PM:

Michael is correct, white tape is always found on 8mm prints, when I used to get them from Blackhawk, then later Castle used masking - Shorty

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 29, 2016, 07:27 PM:

That's because people have stuck them down using masking tape..Doh!!

I've even seen moronic idiots post films out joined with metal staples!!

Go figure?

If they ever thought for one minute that these would sabotage my projectors, they were sadly mistaken!

Every print gets proof checked and cleaned on the rewind arms and eventually the editor before then being first projected!! [Wink]

Posted by Buck Bito (Member # 2676) on June 29, 2016, 08:45 PM:

At least here in the U.S., Permacel P-724 was widely used as both hold-down and console tape (for marking settings on pro audio mixers/consoles). Shurtape bought Permacel several years ago and the replacement part for P-724 was/is FP227. I would suspect that it is available in the U.K. but you may also want to try lighting and grip supplies or pro audio suppliers for local options. We are able to get 6mm/quarter-inch wide paper tape from our local production expendables shop: http://www.jcxex.com/exp_gaffer_camera_tape.htm
We use 1/4 inch for 8 and 9.5mm and 3/8 inch for 16 and 17.5mm

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 30, 2016, 02:08 AM:

Perhaps this may be suitable.
http://www.gaffatape.com/proffesional-grade-matt-gaffer-tape/Default.aspx

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on June 30, 2016, 02:49 AM:

I use Frogtape to tape down film ends on my spools.

It comes in two types - multi-surface green coloured tape, and low-tack yellow coloured tape.

If you're very 'picky about the sticky' go for the yellow low tack version.

About £7 per 50 metre roll from B&Q etc.

Kevin

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 30, 2016, 04:14 AM:

Is it not still stickier than "Magic" tape though Kevin?
Honestly, this stuff really is magic. It can be reused over again and as said, no sticky residue of any kind. [Wink]

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on June 30, 2016, 04:19 AM:

I remember when I looked after computer magnetic 1/2" tape new ones came with a very flexible 1/4" plastic strip that held the end down , I suspect, with static - no adhesive. I wonder if that is available.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on June 30, 2016, 04:35 AM:

Hello Andrew

I will try some Magic Tape as that sounds good too.

I found that Frogtape differs from the usual masking tape by accident - I had masked off a number of walls in my house then was not able to complete the painting whilst unwell - the yellow low-tack Frogtape was on the wall edges for a couple of months but still peeled off OK with no sticky mess or pulled off paint.

I then started to use it on film ends with no problems - I don't have an example of a 'many years in the can' print but one I taped up a couple of years ago and watched recently was easy to unstick with no mess left behind.

Long postman parcel type rubber bands can also be used too stretched around the entire film rim so no need for tape of any kind.

Kevin

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on June 30, 2016, 05:45 AM:

Thanks for all the tips. This has been educational as I'm now aware of types of tape that I'd never heard of! Magic tape is economical and available in suitable widths. Andrew confirms it works perfectly, although it's probably thinner than what I was looking for and I'd ideally like a contrasting colour rather than transparent. But it's also good for writing on and I may get some for other uses! I was picturing the relatively thick paper-type tape about 10-12mm wide that some USA collectors use, which is very easy to get hold when you're removing it. I suspect the frog tape Kevin mentions is very similar, although (unless Kevin advises otherwise) the rolls all seem wider than 16mm, so you need to cut each piece in half? I've found some permacel tapes on Amazon and some are also wider than 16mm, although the flourescent cloth type (also mentioned by Buck) is 12mm and no doubt easy to spot in a darkened rooom! Available here: https://w ww.amazon.co.uk/ProTapes-Permacel-12mmx25-Fluorescent-Gaffer/dp/B00CYDP5K6/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1467281680&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=Permacel+P-724+tape

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 30, 2016, 09:33 AM:

Let's face it, ultimately it is just a UK regular supplier of film clips that we really need.
It's just really a case of sourcing a local UK firm with 3D kit that would manufacture small batches of each of the sizes required. Then just send a sample to them of the ones you prefer...in my case the 4 claw Bonum variety.

Posted by Buck Bito (Member # 2676) on June 30, 2016, 02:56 PM:

@Adrian,
I would stay away from the cloth tape you linked to on UK Amazon. I don't know of a cloth tape manufactured with the right type of adhesive to avoid a mess. Permacel was a company that manufactured many types of tape, but it was specifically the paper P-724 that was designed for clean removal and used for consoles or film/tape hold-down.

Posted by David Michael Leugers (Member # 166) on July 01, 2016, 10:45 PM:

Identitape 1/4 inch tapes for 8mm films, 1/2 inch tapes for 16mm films. Great stuff, way better than paper tape.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on July 02, 2016, 05:09 AM:

Used David's link to obtain a seller in the UK. Here it is.
https://www.fancy-tapes.co.uk/gaffer-tape

Posted by Douglas Warren (Member # 1047) on July 03, 2016, 04:47 PM:

I use 6mm Tamiya Hobby Masking Tape. It's thin and works well on both 8 / Super-8 films and 16 mm ones as well:

https://www.amazon.com/TAMIYA-Masking-Tape-2pcs-Refill/dp/B00J3TLZQC

Posted by Lynn Emerich (Member # 5502) on August 01, 2016, 05:40 PM:

Hi folks, I just found this place so this is my first post. Just to clarify the original question, the tape you're talking about is to secure the full reel from unwinding, is this correct. I read the original post too fast and thought it was splicing tape you were talking about.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 01, 2016, 06:16 PM:

Welcome Lynn from Pennsylvania, the best way to secure the LEAD ends of any film is by using plastic film clips, NOT sticky adhesive tape..EVER, no matter what the film, no matter what the gauge...period!

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on August 01, 2016, 07:06 PM:

Lynn - welcome! Yes, that's correct, I wasn't referring to splicing tape; I meant the sort of tape I commonly see holding down the leaders of 16mm films on reels or cores, particularly when sent from the USA.

One thing I can say with certainty is that collectors in the USA are at an advantage when it comes to choice because some of the ones that have been mentioned are simply not available from UK suppliers, at least in a width such as 12mm.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 01, 2016, 07:27 PM:

Tape is tape Adrian. Adhesive that quite frankly, apart from a perfectly joined splice, should not go anywhere near a film!!

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on August 02, 2016, 12:33 AM:

Andrew - I think we will have to agree to disagree, and I suspect you'll find it's a losing battle trying to persuade all tape users here to stop using it! In over 30 years of collecting 16mm films, I've never had a problem caused by tape having been used on a leader, but I have had problems resulting from films, particularly on full spools, becoming somewhat unspooled. I'd happily use 8mm style clips on 16mm films, but although one or two suppliers have offered them, the prices are so high that it would cost me a fortune to buy them in bulk!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 02, 2016, 01:41 AM:

Have to say for 8mm i usually just store the film in its box with the leader loose,its never been a problem. If its a full spool we have enough plastic stoppers. If i sell a film and post it i do use a slither of masking tape just to stop it flapping about inside the box.
For our few 16mm film they all simply sit in the can.as long as there not rewound loose it shouldnt be a problem. I store the 16s flat. I definatley see the point of tape residue but when i cut the masking tape i cut it into a strip and is ends up being half inch long and no more than 2 or 3mm wide.that should be more than big enough. If you buy cheap masking tape you will have sticky residue. I work in the motor trade and the masking tape our bodyshop shop uses leaves no residue. Don't buy cheap trash from a DIY store. I made that mistake once. [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 02, 2016, 05:16 AM:

Well if tape has to be used for whatever reason Adrian, Tom's advice there seems the best. Avoid any that leave residue.

Personally, I try to keep up with film purchases by scrambling around to find enough film clips for each of them, though this must of course, be far more difficult for 16mm than it is currently for 8mm.

This is a different scenario anyhow to the one we were initially speaking of.
That was regarding the use of tape at the core of a spool which from what I said, is completely needless.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 02, 2016, 06:52 AM:

Yes i agree there, i never use tape to stick to the core, why would you need to do that? [Confused]

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on August 03, 2016, 10:42 AM:

Or you can always do what we did at the Cinema.
Simply tuck the leader down gently at the inside of the spool.
No tape needed.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on August 03, 2016, 10:58 AM:

Andrew - I completely agree about avoiding a sticky residue, but if you see the first post of this thread, the objective of it was to try and find sources of non-sticky take in the UK!

I think tails are often taped to 16mm cores because the film is attached more easily than using the groove in them, although I still wish it didn't happen. Taping the tail of an 8mm film to the centre of a reel is bizarre, though, thankfully I don't think I've come across this yet.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 03, 2016, 11:04 AM:

I run entirely tape free.

I got a really nice print from Derann once time and somehow a tiny little fragment of tape formed this perfect little pyramid and lodged on a guide right where it could gouge the film.

It was below the gate so the first time I watched the film it was perfectly OK. The next night I said "I liked that so much I want to see it again", and now there was a big green scratch. (I lucked out here: I could have ruined half my collection before I discovered this.)

-and of course this shut me down until I went through the machine with a flashlight and magnifying glass and found and removed the spike. Then I had to run some sacrificial footage to return the machine to the active list.

I treat the stuff like nuclear waste now.

(I guess even hobbies need a little stress to be worthwhile: you value what you earn!)

I like those little soft blocks that fit between the flanges to hold the leader down. Does anybody know who makes them?

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on August 05, 2016, 04:36 PM:

Like I said before you don't need tape at all.
Simply tuck it in to the spool.
I only tape my leaders down if I am sending a print to someone. [Wink]

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on August 07, 2016, 04:15 PM:

The second hand 400ft print of Chinatown (bought this weekend) has a strip of about 5mm wide tape fixed to the case. I though some prints came new with this and this seems to confirm it.

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