8mm Forum: Who tapes tails?

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Posted by Michael Lattavo (Member # 4280) on July 25, 2016, 10:43 AM:

I've never seen this before.....running a film last night, and at the end of the first reel there is a long piece of tape! Naturally, a piece broke off in the film gate. I have a Telex, so as the gate doesn't swing open I had a good time digging it out.

Why would anyone tape the tail of a film?!? [Confused]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 25, 2016, 11:46 AM:

I've actually made that mistake, just a few times, but it's due to the film being on a reel that just won't seem to "grab' the film, and so, i have to put a little tape on the end of the film, just to get it to rewind onto the reel ...

... when i have done that, I've tended to use a piece of tape cut down to a thin strip, so that it doesn't stick out funny, and so far, i have had to "dig out a piece of tape. Sorry to hear about you're experience.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 25, 2016, 12:22 PM:

Back in the 1970s there was this idea of making Super-8 projection user friendly by "auto-rewind". Basically the tail was hard anchored onto the supply reel and when it reached the end the film tension climbed very high, very fast. The machine then retracted the claw, reversed gears and pulled the film backwards at high speed through the normal projection path. I did this as a teenager. (-I did a lot of dumb crap as a teenager! Based on what I remember, being the Dad of a teenage boy these days is kind of terrifying!)

I'm sure somewhere in my collection I still have some films set up like this, and the day I run one through one of my sound machines it'll be like a dog making a long run on a short leash!

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on July 25, 2016, 12:41 PM:

A reel is worse but I find it annoying enough that most 16mm films supplied on cores are taped, even if brand new, so you can't risk a quick viewing before checking the end. Many people clearly ignore the groove that's there to put the film end in!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 25, 2016, 02:40 PM:

A snug fitting wide rubber band fitted to the core of any spool is a far better way to catch your film upon than sticking it to the reel prior to rewinding using any kind of sticky tape.

Your film path, claw, magnetic heads and sprockets will think so too!! [Confused]

[ July 25, 2016, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 26, 2016, 10:29 AM:

I agree Andrew, but sometimes you run into those reels that for some odd reason, the film doesn't hold onto well. At least i have, but there have only been a few ... thankfully.

OSI

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 26, 2016, 11:03 AM:

That's where the rubber band comes in Osi.
Even stubborn Polyester prints coated in film guard manage to latch into those impossible to thread Derann 600ft Grasso reels with no slots in them!

Try it, it works a treat.😊😊

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 26, 2016, 11:13 AM:

Every so often you run into those 200 foot plastic reels with the clip that slides out to the edge, accepts the film and then slides back to the center of the reel.

-Whoever thought of this should have gotten a Nobel Prize!

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 27, 2016, 12:36 PM:

OK Andrew, this is one time where I am totally stumped.

HOW, do you use a rubber band for helping a film spool onto the reel? [Eek!]

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on July 27, 2016, 04:17 PM:

I would think with a wide elastic band on the centre hub the film has something to grip on to - unlike shiny plastic. Not sure it would work if the film is too stiff though.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 27, 2016, 04:23 PM:

You're correct Brian and believe me...it does, even on poker straight poly covered in slippery slimey Filmguard!😉

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on July 27, 2016, 04:51 PM:

I have a couple Kodak MovieDeck projectors that as Steve described these were designed to auto-rewind the film if the end was taped to the reel. I found this to be more a pain then it was worth. Sometimes it would rewind in the middle of a reel so I disabled this feature.

Posted by Phil Slater (Member # 2388) on July 28, 2016, 02:57 AM:

I use tape all the time, not masking tape or celotape, but a thin strip of splicing tape from a roll. I attach about 3/4 of it to the end of the film leaving the final quarter to stick onto the reel, so there is no chance of it coming off the film. I don't use the slot in the reel because I am frequently splicing the end of one film onto the start of another so I want to avoid a crease in the end of the film which I would have to cut off everytime. I tend to leave only a short length of black leader on the end of each film anyway, so if I had to cut a few frames off each time, it would get shorter and shorter. I have been doing this for years and have never had a problem with the tape coming off. It works for me anyway!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 28, 2016, 09:57 AM:

That's still allowing a small area of sticky gum residue to pass through your film path and over your magnetic heads whenever you view a film, if it's a super 8mm print Phil.

Much safer to keep all of the film path free from anything other than traces of your film cleaner/ lubricant, even if you claim this has caused you no detrimental consequences so far.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on July 28, 2016, 10:24 AM:

I have never needed to resort to using anything to attach
the leader to the take-up spool when there are no film slots in the hub of the spool.
Just a little patience and some slack film and use of my little finger
works wonders in cases like this.
As the saying goes practice makes perfect. [Big Grin]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 28, 2016, 10:58 AM:

The Derann Grasso spools are nigh on impossible to get the film to latch onto their hubs though David.
The slots are also too small to allow a finger or even a pencil to easily assist.

On reels such as these, the rubber band treatment is a Godsend.

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on July 28, 2016, 11:21 AM:

I can understand the taped tails...but what bugs me is the taped heads.

I have received many films with masking tape holding the film onto the reel so it doesn't unwind..Makes a terrible mess at the leader(head)end over time that can be fixed with trimming, but sometimes it goes into leader title and i don't like to have to cut...a pain... [Smile]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 28, 2016, 11:43 AM:

Andrew ...

I'm still stumped. What is this rubber band method?

Posted by Phil Slater (Member # 2388) on July 28, 2016, 01:50 PM:

Andrew, I take your point however I make sure the strip of tape is down the centre of the film so it doesn't pass over the sound heads. Perhaps I'll try David's method in the future, it sound alot simpler.n

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on July 28, 2016, 03:18 PM:

Yes Andrew those Grasso spools are a bit of nuisance in use.
However I find if you line up the end of the leader with one of those thin flexible cut out plastic bits on the edges of the spool sides
then gently press them with one of your fingers while turning the spool with your free hand it should coil round the hub until
nice and tight with no slippage.
It does take a bit of practice but you will get better and quicker at it the more you do it. Mathew I don't like masking tape to seal down the film either.
I use small bits of splicing tape folded at one edge. Much easier and cleaner in use as it leaves no residue on the leader.

Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on July 31, 2016, 11:39 AM:

Osi, I hope somebody can provide a more definitive answer because I'm just guessing.

Think of the hub as a wheel and the rubber band as a thin tire. Turns the slippery surface of the hub into something with a bit of grip.

The rubber band would have a slightly smaller diameter than the hub of the reel and ideally would be close to 8mm in width.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 31, 2016, 03:02 PM:

Hi Osi, sorry buddy I've been in work so couldn't reply sooner sorry.

It's nothing technical or mind boggling. It's nothing particularly clever.

All it is is just a simple task of fitting a snug, wider than average sized rubber band which if expanded to its fullest will slip over the outside diameter of the reel and then sit flat onto its hub, then as Tom above suggests, it just adds enough friction to the reel hub to allow even the slippiest and stubborn film stocks to "snatch" into an initial loop to allow easy rewinding when the rewind function is already initiated.

It really isn't applicable to any reel which contains a slot to poke the film end into.
Just those reels with ridiculously undersized elongated side slots to get your fingers into and no slot in the hub itself for the film end to drop into.

Believe me with these type of reels I've tried it all. Cotton buds (Q Tips), pencils and gawd knows what!

This, I've found, offers the easiest and best solution for use with these Grasso style reels and the likes, without having to resort to the use of any kind of sticky substance coming into contact with any of your projectors film path, only to leave residue somewhere over time [Wink]

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on August 05, 2016, 04:29 PM:

Andrew you could always try what we Pros do in desperation.
Use a bit of spit ! [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 05, 2016, 05:32 PM:

I fear mine would be more volatile to film than the tape residue David!! 😁😁😁

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on August 06, 2016, 04:25 AM:

Andrew what have you been drinking ?
For goodness sake stay away from nitrate film stock.
Hahahaha !!! [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 06, 2016, 05:44 AM:

Irn Brew...Made from girders!! Ha ha ha.

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