8mm Forum: Beatles Vinyl

This is topic Beatles Vinyl in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on January 12, 2018, 10:28 AM:

Ok, so as the description of the "General Yak" section of this forum says, we can discuss "random non film topics." So I will....

I have been listening to a lot of Beatles music on vinyl recently, and I have come to the conclusion that the tracks released as 7" singles actually sound better than their equivalent title on their albums, whether it is a studio album or compilation. They seem to have much more energy and "umph" on 7" than 12" (although 12",too, has a certain "umph" you don't get from cd).

Your comments please.....

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Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on January 12, 2018, 11:11 AM:

It because the singles were cut at a higher level and the 45RPM speed gives increased fidelity.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on January 12, 2018, 11:47 AM:

I had a few rock'n'roll 78s from the 50s, and they sounded better than the same recordings on CD.

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on January 12, 2018, 12:00 PM:

I have a lot of my Beatles original vintage vinyl and still collect. Also The Rolling Stones and some others, but not many 45s. The original LP first pressings almost always have a much richer sound than later pressings and re-issues [Smile]

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on January 12, 2018, 01:31 PM:

David - I suspected that may have been the case. Faster rotation speed,quite a large area to fill for less than 3 minutes of sound leading to, I would assume, deeper grooves with a larger volume ability thus punchy sound.

Joe - I agree with your comments, but to go one step further, I also feel that the original UK mono Lp's on Parlophone sounded better than the US releases on Capitol records. Not only that, some of the US releases were tampered with.... some tracks sounding as if they had been recorded in an echo chamber!

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Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on January 12, 2018, 01:42 PM:

A lot of Vinyl now is mastered from digital sources/masters.

I suppose its a bit like putting films shot on digital on to film.

They do get a nice filmie look.

So maybe from digital vinyl still sounds nicer too.

Might pop some on now actually.

Charged GBH picture disc. Punk so does`nt really matter about the odd bit of picture disc noise.

I wonder if most cine film silly types do vinyl or analogue tape`s too ? Just vinyl myself.

Best Mark.

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on January 12, 2018, 02:43 PM:

Melvin, YES, the Beatles' Capitol albums were mostly terrible compared to the UK Parlophone LPs. Some of the German pressings on Apple are very good too, most notably Magical Mystery Tour...

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on January 12, 2018, 03:34 PM:

the 45 singles should in theory not sound as good as a microgroove lp running at 33 1/3 rpm.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on January 12, 2018, 03:53 PM:

I always thought that maybe the wider grooves of the 78rpm disc made it sound better than the LP version. Strangely though, some of the clearest recordings I heard on vinyl were microgroove pressings by Pye.

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on January 12, 2018, 04:26 PM:

David - For most bands, I would agree that the sound from an Lp is superior to a single, but not in the case of the Beatles. The mono sound just seems to ooze with energy and excitement and, in the case of "Help!", is a completely different Lennon vocal to the Lp version anyway.

Robert - Interesting you mentioned "Pye" as they,together with Decca, were a sub-contractor to press Parlophone singles.So were the "Pye" pressings ultimately the best,I wonder? Food for thought.

.

Posted by Kurt Gardner (Member # 440) on January 12, 2018, 04:41 PM:

I also exclusively buy music on vinyl. You usually get a download card anyhow, so you can take it to the gym. I love alternative rock, and all my fave bands issue their new stuff on records.

There are three factors that make vinyl sound so great these days. First is the thickness. If you see that a record is pressed on 180 gram vinyl, it's going to be much thicker than the skinny discs from the '70s and will have more resonance.

Second is the speed. Some companies actually issue full-length albums (on multiple discs) that play at 45RPM. It's mostly classic jazz distributors, but I have several LPs that play at 45 and they sound great.

Finally, make sure you are using analogue equipment. I have a Pro-Ject Recordmaster turntable, Onkyo tower speakers and an Onkyo two-channel analogue amplifier. The whole setup cost under $1,000 and just sounds terrific.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on January 12, 2018, 05:13 PM:

I use a Hanpin ( Chinese made ) DJ based direct drive turntable.

£120 delivered 3 years ago new from Germany.Conrad electrics etc.

I think the same one is around £150 now.

£230 gets you an unbelievable varient of the same, also modelled on the old Technics one.

https://www.am azon.co.uk/Audio-Technica-AT-LP120USBHC-Turntable-HS10-Headshell-Black/dp/B00RYVUZEE/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1515798702&sr=8-14&keywords=turntable

The sound from mine is amazing.

I actually listen to it through twin powered PC speakers, with the most aamzing and rich warm sound. They were £16 delivered when I bought them. They are quite expensive now as seen as very good.

My set up sounds cheap but the sound is amazing for the money.

There are some really lovely and very affordable for the quality turntables out at the moment.

Best Mark.

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on January 13, 2018, 05:27 AM:

Melvin,
I think part of the issue with the Beatles recordings is that the early ones were recorded for mono,and then mixed for stereo later,which mucks them up!
a while ago,all the Beatles albums were re issued in mono,with all analogue production,from the original 1/4 inch tapes,at Abbey Road. I have some of these and they sound very good.

Posted by David Fouracre (Member # 3883) on January 13, 2018, 08:28 AM:

I recall years ago on a visit to a London recording studio, finding an interesting single-sided LP test disc in a disc cutting
studio. The disc contained 8 or 10 tracks of Trini Lopez (If I had a Hammer). The engineer told me "that from a tape master, he would re-equalise the tracks to get the best result when played on the typical record players of the time". The artist or manager would determine which version would go on to be pressed.

I was facinated to learn that a monitoring tape head at the master tape would check levels a little ahead of the music content and this signal was fed to the disc cutter to "open up the distance between adjacent grooves at the disc cutting master to prevent interference between adjacent grooving.
I think that this groove spacing, determined the typical maximum modulation on a typical single. Thus E Ps were perceived as lower level compared with singles of the day, due to finer groove spacing.
Following the original recording, the artist or others, would use a separate studio to listen and re-equalise/ balance their efforts. My experience dates back to the 1970s and present standards have much improved. In those days, they could only do disc cutting during the night, as the London Underground passed beneath that studio, causing rumble to be detected on a disc master!

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on January 13, 2018, 09:24 AM:

The sound quality of a record (why did everyone start calling them vinyl?) always sounded better to me when played from an original (not reissued) 45 than on a 33 LP - especially rock n roll, rockabilly, blues etc which can lose so much of their authentic raw sound when over processed for CD or MP3 downloads.

Records I played on back in the day (rock n roll drummer) were never over produced - yes there were some overdubs and drop ins to cover cock ups, but you really got to hear as close to the studio sound on the record hence the excitement was really caught in the groove.

Kevin

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on January 13, 2018, 09:53 AM:

I see that W.H.Smith has new 12" LPs of the original Beatles LPs at £25 each. Anyone know how they have been produced?

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on January 13, 2018, 12:32 PM:

Maurice,
they may be the mono versions I was on about earlier,in which case they are very well produced and sound very good.
In this case,they will have a "Beatles in mono" label.
I paid about £20 each for these mono versions about a year ago.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on January 13, 2018, 12:48 PM:

Have to be honest the only time I`ve bought new records these days, odd times is from Amazon as so easy to send back if needed.

These sound good.

But did`nt buy any in 2017 actually new I think.

But a few in 2016.

I did buy a thin lizzy best of 2nd hand ( £5 ) 3 years ago from about 1980 was the most lovely sounding LP I ever heard.

Best Mark.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on January 13, 2018, 02:58 PM:

The original release of the ELO "Out of the Blue" was a double album. When it came out later as a CD it all fitted on one CD. I wonder if that was to make sure the original record wasn't compressed as many of the budget compilation LPs were - with no dynamic range at all.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on January 13, 2018, 03:33 PM:

There is a second hand shop here that sell, thousands of records, about once a week I call in and have a look through some of them...I would be there forever otherwise [Roll Eyes]

Last year I picked up the "The Beatles" red double album in mint condition, what surprised me that both LPs were Parlophone, where as, when I bought the Blue double album new back in the 70s, the LPs were Apple...why the difference?

I have to admit I enjoy listing to records much more that CDs these days. I find that I can hear the sounds much clearer. My hearing is not what it used to be, thats for sure, but its a real treat to once again hear recording as I remember them long ago.

I have been using IPA "Isopropyl Alcohol" to clean them...what do you use?

Anyway great topic..Oh who can remember George Harrison "My Sweet Lord"?..from 1970. It was a huge hit back then and played on the radio all the time..I took this photo last night, what a fantastic recording, plus "Isn't It A Pity" on the other side [Cool]

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on January 13, 2018, 03:58 PM:

agree with you there Graham,have always prefered lp sound to that of cd. in fact,sold all my cd"s years ago,never listened to them. I had the "my sweet lord" album when it first came out,a triple but the third disc was just a jam session.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on January 13, 2018, 04:08 PM:

Right here goes.

Besides being a film collector and also into model railways I am also a record collector and into Hi-Fi equipment.

I never gave up on collecting records be they L.P.s , Singles or 78s.

I still have thousands of them. I have mix of Classical , Opera , Instrumental , Easy Listening , Jazz , Pop , Rock , Blues and Film Soundtracks and Scores.

I do have CDs and Reel to Reel Tapes and Music Cassettes but not so much as vinyl records.

I play them back on high quality hi fi equipment.
I have a choice of transcription turntables, arms and cartridges to do so.

Among my turntables are LINN SONDEK LP 12 with a LINN AKITO tone arm.

A GARRARD 401 with an SME 3009 tone arm.

A MICHELL HYDRAULIC REFERENCE... the one featured in Clockwork Orange ... with an SME 3009 ( Improved ) tone arm.

A GOLDRING GL 75 with an LINN AKITO tone arm... I use this for 78s.

A range of pick up cartridges from Shure V 15 MK III s to ORTOFON GOLD Moving Coil.

For the sake of "authenticity" I tend to playback my LPs via my Quad Valve 22... Tube... Control Unit and dual MONO Quad 11 amplifiers if they were recorded on valve equipment originally.

I have all the original Beatles pressings MONO Lps ... not the later re-issues on 180gm vinyl... and they still sound excellent as do my Classical and Opera records.

This year I shall be investing in a Professional Record Cleaning Machine to keep them all in pristine condition and remove years of gunk from the grooves even though I keep them very clean before playing them.

NUTZZ AINT I !

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 14, 2018, 02:24 AM:

David, about 18 months back, I spent a small fortune having my Linn LP12 serviced and a new Audio Technica OC9 III moving coil cartridge fitted.

I'm lucky to live quite near two ex - Linn guys who run their own Linn dealership.

I've owned it for 28 years and it still sounds beautiful.

Then I went a little crazy and bought a new amp too; Musical Fidelity M6si! Eek...

Vinyl records do sound better than the CD equivalent.

I dabble with studio quality downloads (not to be confused with terrible MP3) and they do sound spectacular, as good as vinyl, but oddly still not as warm (although that may just be psychological as you can't enjoy watching the stylus in the rotating record!)

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on January 14, 2018, 02:25 AM:

I would suggest cleaning LPs with a cloth soaked in warm soapy water, cleaning in a circular motion. Dry immediately with another cloth.

Apple records was founded by the Beatles in 1968 as a division of Apple Corps Ltd. EMI/Parlophone distributed Apple until 1975, EMI then retained ownership of the Beatles' recordings.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on January 14, 2018, 03:58 AM:

Why do the 45 rpm discs of the 60s have this slightly distorted sound, unlike the 50s, which were of the same quality of the LP pressings. EMI even did it with their budget labels, such as Starline and Music For Pleasure. Decca always gave good quality , even for 99p.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on January 14, 2018, 08:04 AM:

My Beatles Red double album is Apple as is the blue, but that too was a mid 70's purchase.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on January 14, 2018, 08:43 AM:

David, with your interest in model railways, did you buy any of those Argo Transacord LPs of steam locos?

Posted by Jorma Julku (Member # 6015) on January 14, 2018, 10:53 AM:

Producer George Martin and studio engineers spent much more time for mono mixing than stereo. After all is music what matters. Vinyls have magic for bonus. (umph)

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 14, 2018, 12:06 PM:

Maurice, whilst I don't doubt your cleaning method, the thing about vinyl, much like celluloid is that once the damage is done, it's done.

So a pop from a scratch won't ever disappear.

Distortion form dirt in the groove is like specks on a film print; best avoided in the first place...otherwise you're looking at trying to salvage it.

Problem with washing vinyl (and trust me, back in the days I worked in a hi-fi shop, we had many differences of opinion on this) is that you potentially just rub muck deeper into the delicate groove.

There are very expensive vinyl washing devices out there, some using ultra-sonic cleaning, like film, but can cost £1000's!!!

If you have a record in real need of attention, and to extend the life of your stylus, I have found this product very good;

https://amcleansound.com/collections/all

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on January 14, 2018, 05:16 PM:

Robert yes I do have some of those railway steam locomotive LPs.
I also have one on the good old Hallmark budget label which is very well recorded. [Smile]

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on January 14, 2018, 05:34 PM:

I have some railroad sounds albums also and they sound so good, like you are right there in the yard. I have many silent railroad films and sometimes I play them alongside the albums.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on January 14, 2018, 05:48 PM:

Yes Bill they are great for those silent railway prints.

Like you say these records were very well recorded and most life like indeed.

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