8mm Forum: Scrapping Faded Prints

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Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 13, 2018, 02:09 AM:

Well its taking me this long just to get started to go through all the film formats, and those like this 16mm Scope print of Star Wars and many other 8mm prints are now heading the same way.

The good thing about getting rid of this stuff, is that in the process of throwing out the bad stuff and on inspection. I am coming across some films, that I have not watched in years and forgotton about that I can now place onto better reels, with a view to watch in the near future, films that are worth keeping....so its not all doom and gloom [Smile]

Scope print of Star Wars....red as a beetroot [Frown]

Reeling it off while keeping the reels and boxes for other films.

The end result of those badly faded films [Frown]

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 13, 2018, 02:54 AM:

I'm pretty sure that copy of Star Wars would have been snapped up by a collector, even though it is red. Why not sell it with that honest description, rather than dump or destroy it. It may not meet your requirements but I'm willing to bet others would love to have it.
Having said that I was never a great fan of Star Wars. [Cool]

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on March 13, 2018, 03:52 AM:

yes I think it would have sold people on ebay are buying films of umknown content and getting over £100 for them

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on March 13, 2018, 04:08 AM:

Brave move. I've considered doing the same thing to make space myself.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 13, 2018, 04:23 AM:

I agree with Terry and David. I've bought red prints and some of them are among my favourites. I think 'Star Wars' would fetch quite a high price; why destroy it and deny someone else the opportunity of enjoying it?. As well as being a collector, I like to think i'm also a conservationist.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 04:34 AM:

Graham, I am sincerely sitting here applauding you for doing this so publicly - I have done the same myself many times as the Eastman (red and pink and almost clear film in some cases) and 60's / 70's Fuji (purple and rot in the emulsion) have come my way or gone off in my collection. Super 8, 16mm and 35mm, all chopped and dumped due to fade.

However, as I'm sure you will see as the replies to this thread come in, prepare yourself for a backlash as you are officially now a 'real film murderer' - so many collectors out there will hate the thought of even one frame of film being trashed let alone a whole reel or feature.

It would be different if it was a lost film, or one that had scenes in it no longer available elsewhere, as with some 35mm Nitrate my friends at Kaleidoscope took to Pathe and the BFI for me.

Thankfully these faded beyond watchable films are now out of the re-selling loop forever, making it impossible for any future owner to describe them as 'excellent condition' on one line of the description, then adding 'with colour fade' on the other, as often is the case.

Kevin

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 13, 2018, 07:17 AM:

Does it matter if someone else sells it as long as the buyer is happy?. I'm happy with my red prints. There may not be the opportunity of getting the same title in IB Tech or low fade. One excuse given here before was that it was not how the director intended you to see it; neither was pan and scan, or B&W prints of colour films, so where do you stop?. What we are seeing here are two types, one who loves real film and want's to see it around for future generations, the other side are people who just want to watch a movie and don't care what form it takes. Instead of worrying what money others might make from a red print, why not make that money yourself?

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 13, 2018, 07:26 AM:

Well Done Graham

Best place for Red and damaged prints!!

Mike

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 07:37 AM:

Hello Robert

In some cases I would agree that below par prints can still mean a lot to the owner - I have fairly poor 16mm dupes of Citizen Kane and A Most Dangerous Game in my collection I still enjoy and project to myself but to an audience I would use the DVD or Bluray versions instead. My experience is most audiences don't give a hoot to where the light beam is coming from as long as it looks good and sounds good on screen.

The problem I have is particularly with colour prints that have really turned, totally pink or beetroot red or purple, impossible to improve even with filters - they re-surface time and time again to the point that people start to think this is the best real film can offer.

Hence my dislike of the use of the word 'stunning' in seller film condition descriptions - take away all the faded crap and stunning then becomes the expected norm - perhaps this is why dealers like part and fully faded prints to be out there it can only make the prices of the non faded 'stunning' prints go higher.

As for pan and scan, abridged, what the director intended etc. I don't see the relevance in comparison - faded is faded - there is nothing worst than seeing the Filmed In Technicolor logo in faded pink or red only hues.

Everyone to their own though and if watching a pink or magenta print floats your boat then so be it.

Kevin

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 13, 2018, 07:43 AM:

Star Wars scope print!! Way to go Graham one less in the world. Alec Guinness would be proud of you. Don't forget the Hats Off feature print. [Razz]

Posted by Simon McConway (Member # 219) on March 13, 2018, 08:29 AM:

Imagine vintage wine collectors throwing away bottles as they’re dusty or The National Trust knocking down stately homes because "they are not quite how they were when they were new".

Let’s throw away all our projectors as they are old? I think not!
This is possibly the worst post I’ve read here....ever. You’re no film god. In fact, how dare you use that title after such sacrilege! You have also thrown away money, in the scapping of that print!

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 13, 2018, 08:49 AM:

Thank you Simon, exactly my thoughts. Kevin, thank you for your reply to my post. The statement about 'this is not what the director intended us to see' was made in a former post about binning red prints, and I think the author was David Hardy. I know a lot of directors were not happy about Pan and Scan, hence my mentioning it. Would someone who got a mention for the best use of colour be happy that collectors had B&W prints.
Here is a screenshot of a film I bought last year' The Siege of the Saxons', I got this from a US seller, who fully described it, and supplied screenshots. Coming from the US I also had extra postage and import tax, but I am very pleased to own it; something that would have been denied if everyone was of the same mind to bin prints. Even David Hardy who formerly agreed with their destruction is now talking of selling them on Ebay. There are some chancers on Ebay, but I don't think it's in the proportions that we are led to believe on here. I don't think some of the sellers here are that honest; how often do you see anyone mention jump cuts, clipped dialogue, and emulsion scratches in their description. Another popular pastime among Super 8 collectors is re-recording soundtracks. I have yet to see a film advertised as 'The professionally recorded soundtrack has been re-recorded by an amateur'.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 09:14 AM:

Simon - you have taken two very extreme cases there where you know the difference is obvious - of course dust the wine bottle down and the contents are hopefully perfect and still drinkable (not always the case I can assure you) and property of any type can be refurbished, even Graded listed property with supervision.

Our hobby unfortunately does not have these benefits - faded to pink or beet red film is just that, faded, worn out, it's had it - we throw away worn out clothing, too expensive to repair consumer electronics, piles of read newspapers and magazines, warped scratched unplayable records, etc. why should cine films be any different?

Robert - sincerely I honestly don't mean to offend anyone with my posts and if you are pleased with a film whatever the colour fade I am happy for you, but for me I can no longer enjoy these films unless all or nearly all the colour range is still there.

Kevin.

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 13, 2018, 09:20 AM:

Wine to Vinegar would be a better comparison.

Least it will stop some chancer selling it on, I never accepted pink prints they are defective in fact some dealers would know my form and if I enquired about a print that was pink they would advise me accordingly. I didn't accept scratched prints ether but I know some collectors are quite happy with tramlines.

Bottom line depends how fussy you are. What's the opinion on out of sync or stripe falling off in parts prints plus the occasional clown who used sellotape or sticking plaster for splices!!!

In summary if you are prepared to accept pink you will take vinegar and not the chip shop variety.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 13, 2018, 09:22 AM:

What if the bottle wasn't dusty but the wine turned vinegar?

There's not a wine collector in the world that doesn't tip those down the sink.

-past a certain point they aren't wine anymore no more than an unwatchable red print is really a film.

Graham has taken a stand here. He was active in that thread a couple of years ago where a red Star Wars print went well above $3,000. He could have cashed in too, but he did what he thought was right, just as he said he would in that same thread.

-That's the sign of an honest man.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 13, 2018, 09:23 AM:

Actually Kevin, 1 of my red prints is immaculate, it's just the colour change, it's not worn out. What I can't understand, and I would be grateful if you could explain it to me; is that knowing there are people who would like to own these prints, why do you deny them that pleasure. I have lots of old records, some single sided going back to 1907; they contain a lot of hiss, but still playable. It may not be for you, but it's Ok for someone else. It just reminds me of that fable of the dog in the manger , 'I don't want it and no one else is having it'. Once you have sold a print and am satisfied that you got your asking price, are you really concerned what the buyer does with it after, keep it or re-sell it?

Look forward to seeing the destruction video on Vimeo.

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on March 13, 2018, 10:01 AM:

I've trashed many faded and red features and digests over the years, both super 8 and 16mm, right off the rewinder and into a garbage bag as they're not recyclable as far as I know.
As others have stated, I also believe that they need to be taken out of circulation. I just wouldn't feel right about selling them or even giving them away...

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 10:03 AM:

Hello Robert

The 'I don't want it so no-one else can have it' quote is the polar opposite of my character as anyone who knows me will testify.

I too had lots of records - thousands at one point as I was a long time record collector and part time DJ in the 80's to 90's - playing rock n roll, rNb rockabilly and blues - all sold now as I found the format too inconvenient to enjoy with our then young children around and moved to CD instead - however, those records were all sold on or given to friends - many were one side London Records demos, some blues acetates etc. but not unplayable rubbish or I would again have headed to the landfill with them.

This is where all of us will differ in our opinions - at what point does something (anything) become no longer worth keeping? And then of course who would like it? Shall I spend years trying to find a willing recipient? You mentioned David Hardy I believe he tried for months to pass on free films and equipment to no avail when he was moving house. Then the minute he confirms them as dumped someone complains!

I think I have one faded 16mm feature left, a Hammer Frankenstein feature I bought last year fully aware from the seller description it was faded as I wanted to try and project it as true black and white using a combination of filters illuminated by my Eiki 500w xenon but this proved impossible to achieve satisfactorily.

If you would like it for free send me your address by PM and I will be pleased to give it to you. I can tell from your posts you genuinely would enjoy the film and not see it just as a future profitable resale on Ebay or elsewhere.

The remaining faded beyond watchable prints (to me) from my collection have already gone - I've kept my IB Tech, Agfa and Eastman LPP prints, some on Kodak SP and of course Kodachrome too. I don't see it as depriving anyone of anything though - just creating space as needed, enabling the reuse and possible sale of the now empty reels and cans.

Kevin

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 13, 2018, 10:20 AM:

Hello Kevin,
thank you for your reply, and thank you for the offer of the film; it's not my type of viewing, but I do thank you for the offer, that was very generous. I think David was offering a 35mm projector free last year, but had no offers. I never saw anything regarding 16mm. I do know he dumped one print that someone would have bought had it been offered for sale. We both have different views on the subject, so I'll leave it at that. One man's meat, etc. Thanks again for your offer.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 13, 2018, 11:23 AM:

It all depends on the film ...

I once has a faded super 8 feature of "Emporer of the North" (Lee marvin classic from the 70's), it wasn't entirely beet red, but it has certainly lost some of it's color, about a 6 out of 10 ...

But i really wish i had kept it as it is the only print of that feature that I've ever seen come up and these days, i have some pretty good filters that would have made the print look a good deal better, not perfect, but better.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 13, 2018, 11:48 AM:

I have to agree with Robert. Why deny someone else's pleasure just because it does not suit your particular needs. Seems somewhat selfish to me. The argument that the recipient might just pass it on at a profit is, as Robert says, a 'dog in the manger' attitude and anyway, who are we to judge whether a film should remain in circulation or not. I understand that it is annoying to collectors when film stock turns pink or red, but it is still playable. I am absolutely certain that Graham cannot be guilty of any selfishness in his attitude, but my opinion is that this trashing of perfectly runnable film is at the least misguided and at worst sacrilegious.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 12:17 PM:

The term sacrilegious is a bit strong Terry, these are inanimate rolls of celluloid not living beings or deities.

Not lost films, just a smaller guage facsimile of far superior masters (real film and digital) already safely stored away for future generations.

Kevin

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 13, 2018, 12:49 PM:

I don`t want to seem too scroungey here, but my son is just set up with an 16mm Elmo cl, well shortly once the rollers are done.

( by a very kind collector on here ).

Any red prints that are nice and not warped etc would be great to borrow please. I`ll cover the posts.

Many Thanks Mark.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on March 13, 2018, 12:51 PM:

Graham,

Nice job! I've just tossed a few Castle prints that suffered from the dreaded orange spot disease.

Doug

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 13, 2018, 12:55 PM:

Kevin

Thanks [Smile]

Folks... over the years of collecting films I have heard many times of people who were once interested into getting into this hobby, only to be disappointed when told "films are in good condition" only to find they are badly faded and unable to watch or show to there friends, so the result is, after feeling conned and lets face it, there have been by some crooks out there that profess to be films collectors but are only interested in making "MONEY" and as long as money is rolling in, dont give a hoot for the poor sucker they ripped off....they leave.

Sure not everyone is a crook, but if you want this hobby to have any future, then unless the print is "rare" as Kevin stated and worth keeping, then forget about the money... forget OH! someone might want it so give it away excuse...well that's rubbish, honestly folks, why would anyone want to watch a badly faded print of "Star Wars" [Eek!]

I dont take any pleasure dumping badly faded films but the bottom line is they are junk, and need to be taken out of circulation to avoid landing up on e-bay, getting sold for money to some poor sucker who has just joined this hobby.

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on March 13, 2018, 01:23 PM:

Im with you on this one Graham. Ive chucked very faded prints,they are best out of circulation.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 13, 2018, 01:33 PM:

Thanks David...

Posted by Simon McConway (Member # 219) on March 13, 2018, 02:13 PM:

An absolute disgrace this post.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on March 13, 2018, 02:24 PM:

Graham, you are right.

I've enjoyed red prints in the past, but just try to even give them away...suddenly all those "collectors" just don't wanna know.

Bin them.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 02:32 PM:

Hello Rob

I tried to give one away here earlier to Robert but it was not his type of film - perhaps we should just keep anything and everything that is worn out forever, why stop at films, projectors and other consumer items, when all our passed away relatives pets and loved ones could still be sitting here with us in the living world embalmed for posterity. The ultimate hoarders dream world.

Not for me thank you.

Kevin

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 13, 2018, 03:06 PM:

Kevin
In the words of Del Boy 'Now you are taking me illiterally'. The word sacriledge is applied in many more instances of comparison than that, as you well know.
The point That I and others make, is that these are not worn out films - they are still runnable and - to some - still watchable.
I find it incredible that members of a forum dedicated to film should have this attitude. If the films were suffering badly from VS or other maladies that made them unplayable or presented a danger of infection to ones collection, then yes. But the colour has just turned. Not a reason to destroy them surely?

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 03:26 PM:

Hello Terry

I've got a lovely original 16mm print of It's A Wonderful Life (Capra not Cliff) which literally stinks the house out when brought in it has more vinegar in it than the local chip shop larder.

However - about ten years on since I noticed the start of VS - it still runs flat, winds flat, stays in focus and, ultimately on screen, I feel looks better than the DVD so I run it on the one Elf STM keep for these prints and store it well away from other acetate films. A couple of my Disney IB Tech cartoons pong the same but still look perfect on screen so I keep them.

When they lose focus or become distorted lumps of cellulose mush then I will of course throw them away.

But the important thing here is they look how they should - clear crisp black and white or full IB Tech colour.

A previously full colour but now totally faded to pink / red / purple print does not look how it should and never will again - why waste a couple of hours watching it - seeing fade that bad makes me wonder why we bother with real film at all - hence the clear outs.

I'm not any less of a film or cine enthusiast for doing this just a realistic one.

Kevin

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 13, 2018, 03:28 PM:

Graham you made your decision and it was the right one. As for jokes about sacrilege save it for the Hammer movies or should that be Carry on Screaming

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 13, 2018, 04:05 PM:

Hello Kevin,
I didn't really want to continue with this conversation, but I only turned down your film because horror films do not interest me; if you have any Alan Ladd, Errol Flynn, Randolph Scott, gone red, and free, I'll send you my address. it was the subject matter not the state of the film.

Not all these films have the masters safely stored in archives; you must know that the 35mm negs to many of Frank Randle's films were destroyed by the lab when they closed down instead of being returned to the owner. So many of these now only exist in 16mm; fortunately, they are all B&W.

Posted by Mark Davies (Member # 6249) on March 13, 2018, 05:34 PM:

Evening Folks,

This is one of those topics, I see both sides, but I am un-qualified to comment really. One mans trash is another mans gold, but then Graham is correct in that it stops other people getting ripped off.

Anyway, that's not the reason I am posting. If anyone in the UK, is throwing some old film away, I would happily pay postage for any old junk. Not looking at selling, I'm looking at a few things. I want to create a display for my office, and also I want to test out some cutting techniques, and it appears my 6 year old is quite interested also. If that makes sense. Film seems rather valuable to practice on these days.

Kind Regards Mark.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 05:55 PM:

Hello Robert

I realised it was not your type of film from your reply - my Errol Flynn 16mm features are all black and white which I want to keep, along with his Super 8 Red Fox features on LPP colour. The one Alan Ladd feature I have is Shane again Red Fox LPP and a favourite of mine. Sadly no Randolph Scott at all here to my best recollection.

At least as some consolation I can confirm I have never had any totally faded prints of these greats so you have not missed any from my previous clearouts.

Whilst many 35mm film masters have been lost to fires and for other reasons I always check to see if any film I own can be classed as lost, be it a TV or Cinema film, before selling or disposing of, and of course even if faded, worn or incomplete, I would then do my best to get it to an archive for preservation or re-release. I have successfully done this on previous occasions and with the help of Chris Perry from Kaleidescope have returned films that were missing or lost, along with a large number of Nitrate 35mm films I owned that were in most cases over 100 years old. I do care deeply about film preservation and conservation in such warranted cases as these.

Kevin.

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 13, 2018, 06:11 PM:

Graham
It's your decision to throw them away and I can see why you would want to do that,yes you could sell or give them away but can be more hassle than it's worth. I have quite a few super 8 films I was going to go through and chuck away as I don't want them and will never watch any of them. I've done the same with projectors too as just dust collectors now. I'm sure that your well aware that Star Wars would have a value but fair play to you for not selling it on for a fast buck. As for VS films,why anyone would want to keep them I've never understood that,without any hesitation they would definitely be going to the tip,Mark

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 06:16 PM:

They have VS Mark not a dusting of anything nasty sent from out East - I've chucked bad VS prints before but other than the stink the ones I've kept project perfectly so why worry?

Kevin

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 13, 2018, 06:23 PM:

Hi Kevin; you have a PM; a collector like myself is interested in the film you offered me. They are a collector and not a seller.

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on March 13, 2018, 06:33 PM:

my decision re films I don't care what title it is if it stinks of vinegar it goes straight in the bin.ne exceptions .re faded or red prints I put them on a bobbin if its a decent title I try to sell,if not a good title then that goes in the bin or free if someone one pays postage or picks it up .I have just binned 2 prints dr doolitle red and stunk of vinegar and yellow rolls Royce with was red and stunk how can you watch a film called yellow rolls Royce and car is red both film stars rex harrision they are both in the bin come and get them quick as bin men come tomorrow

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 06:33 PM:

Hello Robert - PM replied to will have this sorted out for your friend soon.

My lovely missus just chipped in - she said there is often something in the film room here that is pink and stinks a bit on occasions but won't quite fit in the wheelie bin - me!

Kevin

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 13, 2018, 06:52 PM:

Should I chip in that I have personally destroyed I think 5 copies of the same film purely on grounds of good taste without any consideration of pinkness.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 07:00 PM:

Is there a prize for guessing the title Mike?

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 13, 2018, 07:11 PM:

Kevin

You have been round long enough to know which one I mean. Never turns up on dealer lists now.!!! Part of the Goodtastetoo we will name and shame campaign.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 07:20 PM:

I know what it is of course - any left in collections will leap in price following your cull of this title.

I have 16mm and 35mm prints of Divine Madness and a 16mm print of Stella does that make me a fan?

Kevin

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 13, 2018, 07:31 PM:

I don't personally dislike Bette I just think it was the most pointless digest ever.
It actually makes The Formula look exciting. I didn't even start the gag it was already a long running joke at our mini conventions. You would find it substituted in your films or sneaked into the boot of your car when you were leaving It was an endless game of tag. Then we started being gifted them by certain dealers One was barbecued which was messy one was buried at sea on the ferry back from Blackpool. Guess I have substantially increased the rarity value💩😷

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on March 13, 2018, 07:39 PM:

Yes you are part of the problem discussed in the other high prices thread!!! [Smile]

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on March 13, 2018, 08:01 PM:

I'm OK with faded prints that don't have the dreaded VS but only if I like the movie,sadly a lot of my 16mm films are faded to red but I am glad to own them as I think they are not easily obtainable for e.g. Land Of The Giants,Bewitched and the last 1/3rd of an episode of The Planet Of The Apes TV series.
If you are in N.Z. like I am then feel free to let me have a chance to own them,of course I will pay the postage [Smile]

Posted by Jason Smith (Member # 5055) on March 13, 2018, 09:50 PM:

Graham, I have done this with vinegar films but not any red films. Well I personally wouldn't trash red films, disposing of them can be work. It would be discouraging to sell them at a low price on here or on eBay only to see them possibly resold at a lower price.

I would encourage anyone if you had any Super 8 digests with box art that you sell those to someone instead of trashing the film and box. There are many people who would treasure them.

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on March 13, 2018, 10:10 PM:

That's a great idea about the boxes Jason Smith ... I know I have and I know many others just have their favourite film on the reel and the original boxes are long gone.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 13, 2018, 10:48 PM:

Hi Jason

Totally agree about the boxes if I have any without film. I am more than happy to give them away for someone to put there own films into. The box art is very important and wont be thrown out.......good idea Jason [Smile]

Even with the boxes and reels from the 16mm films I got rid off the other day will again soon be used for better storage for the "good stuff" [Smile]

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 14, 2018, 02:58 AM:

Kevin
Ref VS,the smell alone would be enough for me to throw them away,any signs of it would be enough for a tip run as I just don't see the point and stay well away from them,Mark

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 14, 2018, 04:37 AM:

Hello Mark

My difference of opinion regarding VS stems from a number of prints I have seen over the years where only one part of a three part feature, all stored tight in boxes together, has VS and the other two are fine. No one has ever proven to me why three parts, all acetate, can live together literally for twenty or more years and yet only one gets VS. If it is 'catching' why did the other two parts not get 'infected'?

A retired Shell Research chemist friend of mine had some thoughts about this and, even though he was not a cine film man, concluded the VS problem must have started because of differences in the way the different parts were processed - ie: actually at the time the print was made. All OK for a number of years then the base starts to deteriorate. But not one iota of proof it has passed to the other parts even when in the same box for a long, long time.

This is fact, not the often read horror stories that somehow acetic acid can travel between a distance from one reel to another and 'infect' other reels.

Ones I did throw out for VS that did not project or had the classic octagonal look and were sticky on the reel included Swingtime, The French Connection, Stage Fright and some Disney shorts that had faded too.

The only feature I have kept with VS is, as mentioned, It's A Wonderful Life, and I will continue to do so until it loses focus or won't wind flat - the VS shorts are some Disney extracts, IB Tech, flat and beautiful on screen.

Decaying Nitrate though - ah yes there is another story altogether and although my 35mm Nitrates (all gone to pro archives now) had no sign of breakdown, even in those over 100 years old, it is a film base to be respected, carefully handled and stored, and never messed with at any time when it starts to decay.

Kevin

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 14, 2018, 04:51 AM:

Kevin
If your happy to keep them and enjoy then that's fine,it's not even about the idea of spreading etc etc with me it's the smell and I wouldn't go out of my way to store it elsewhere. I appreciate it's a topic that collectors have very different views as does this topic on here about scrapping faded prints but films with VS in any kind of form wouldn't be something I would keep.

I will also add I have some faded prints that I wouldn't part with but ones I do bin are things I wouldn't watch and sell either,I have a loft full of them that will be sorted for the reels and chucked when I get the enthusiasm to do so,Mark

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 14, 2018, 05:01 AM:

If all the Eastman prints were scrapped, what would have happened to all these composite prints that have being sold here and elsewhere?

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 14, 2018, 05:01 AM:

I understand fully Mark, and I can promise all on here that these few fully projectable VS prints will be on the way to the bin if they look bad on screen - never passed on or sold.

Just wondering if some of the critics regarding dumping faded prints realise just how faded we are talking about ie: I still keep prints with faded colour, just not ones that are now completely pink, red or purple?

Robert - the unfaded parts would come up as odd reels for sale as you will often see on dealer lists and on here too.

Kevin

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 14, 2018, 07:31 AM:

Okay guys I am going to "Come Clean" on this topic.

I have in the past destroyed and binned many fading or red/pinky prints.

All those prints were not rare or lost films on any formats.

Yes I did offer free prints to collectors if they were willing to come and pick them up or pay the postage or transit costs.

Some of them were on 35mm and the colour and condition was fine.
However for reasons of space and they had to go along with some 35mm a Westar 35mm film projector. However there was also some 16mm too.

Amongst them was a much cherished 16mm copy of Tales Of Terror which was beet red and stinking to high hell of VS and had very sticky emulsion.

So on those counts I am guilty of film murder by some but have no remorse on my actions.

Yes I did state that all 8mm / 16mm and 35mm prints should be binned in order to take them out of circulation.

However I am now of the mind that if I can sell my remaining or any future fading print to some collectors ( mugs ) at hugely inflated prices I am now more than willing to do so in order to fund my other interest.

If I don't get the asking price after a time period then in the bin they will still go.

Self-interested. ...Yes !

Me now becoming part of the problem ... Yes ! ( maybe )

Common sense ... Yes !

Hey I paid a lot of money for those prints over the decades and would now like to recoup some of my money if at all possible.

There is money to be made in selling that old junk film stock and if someone wants to buy and is willing to pay my asking price plus postage and packing then I am your man ! Hahahahah !

[Smile]

P.S.

Would you be willing to pay any Cinema full ticket price if they were to show 35mm faded badly scratched prints as the norm ?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 14, 2018, 11:44 AM:

I must say that I DID scrap one film in all my collecting ...

I had a print of "Birth Of A Nation", full feature, on some form of standard 8mm, and it even had a magnetic stripe and soundtrack ...

... but it also got a very bad vinegar smell and it got to the point where i had to toss it. i found out later that the venegar smell might just have been the glur that held the mag stripe on the print, (at least, I have heard that this can be the case with some vinegar smell issues).

The shame of it all was that it was incredibly sharp, but it was starting to get so warped as well, that I "binned" it. [Frown]

Posted by Rob Koeling (Member # 35) on March 14, 2018, 01:00 PM:

I must say that I am also a bit bothered by people saying that "I don't understand why anyone would watch a red film and therefore I throw it in the bin". I really dislike red film and for 99 out of 100 films, I wouldn't want to waste my time on it, but hey that is me. I have a few prints of obscure East European animation, and they have lost most of their color. I would love to have these films in the original color, but I am not even sure if film prints exist with the original color. For these ones, I am perfectly happy to watch them as they are. And I do watch them more then some other films that are perfect in any way.

When I first started collecting, I was a lot less fuzzy about the quality of the prints. I just wanted to feed my projectors. Over time I have gotten rid of most inferior prints, and either replaced them with better quality or let them go completely. Mostly sold for pennies or given away, but in a few cases thrown out because I couldn't find anyone who wanted it.

Many years ago I ended up with about 60 full length 35mm features. About halve of them were faded Eastman prints. One of them was a badly faded print of a John Wayne movie. I wouldn't have been interested in that film even if it had been in perfect condition, but you know, people have their reasons to like a film. I put out a list of the prints that I wanted to get rid off with honest descriptions of the state they were in. I got a response from a guy who lived elsewhere in Europe who desperately wanted that John Wayne film. He had bought the jacket that mr Wayne wears in that film at an auction and he wanted to watch that film on 35mm while wearing that jacket.... We all have our guilty pleasures and if they are as innocent as this, how could I deny him that pleasure? He spent a fair amount of money to ship 20kgs of film across Europe and everybody was happy. It is 20 years later and he has probably found a better print of the film by now, but at that time it was just all that was available. These films might not be unique, but new prints are not being made anymore and we can't just walk into a high street shop to pick up a new one. Let's not be too strict (?) about this!

- Rob

[ March 14, 2018, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Rob Koeling ]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 14, 2018, 01:46 PM:

Kevin, did you say toy have IB tech colour films with VS.

Sorry for my ignorance here, (still relatively new to 16mm), but i thought only B/W films suffered with VS. Are colour films also in danger, i understand the later stocks are not likely to get the problem. [Embarrassed]

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 14, 2018, 01:57 PM:

Hello Tom

VS is not connected to the emulsion it is the film base, acetate, that is changing and emmiting acetic acid.

Colour or black and white acetate films can be affected.

IB Tech, Agfa, Kodachrome, Kodak SP, even Eastman LPP can be a VS print if the base is acetate. Any guage too, 8mm, 16mm 35mm etc.

Newer film if on polyester stock cannot develop VS they are not made up of the same chemicals as acetate stock at all.

It is rarer than you may think so don't worry too much, a bit like bad news in the papers - you always hear when a collector finds a stinky print but they never mention the hundreds of non stinky ones.

Kevin

[ March 14, 2018, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Kevin Clark ]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 14, 2018, 02:07 PM:

Thanks for that info Kevin,

Now i know. [Wink]

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 14, 2018, 02:18 PM:

Posted by Rob Koeling (Member # 35) on March 14, 2018, 02:24 PM:

Oops, sorry Kevin... Maybe not the right word. It wasn't meant to be inflammatory or controversial.... I'll change that word. I understand that these topics get very heated quickly. I had no intention to stoke it up.

Also, when it comes to film, I'm happy to admit that I am the biggest snob of them all.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 14, 2018, 03:35 PM:

Thank you Rob, it is perhaps excessive pride that can be misunderstood as snobbery sometimes - getting the film you always wanted, perfect in every way, will be a wind up to some even if the majority are happy for you - conversely we may all have our own personal reasons for not wanting to keep shelves of below par films, and I won't appreciate having to ask anyone for permission to keep, pass on or dump anything, I am sensible enough to do things as I see fit without worrying about what others may think.

Kevin

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 14, 2018, 04:54 PM:

i know what you mean there,
we can only have a modest size 16mm collection but the titles i have i am very proud of. when i got dances with wolves i was as proud as punch. i know there are blokes out there who have superb titles, big box office titles like the Indiana Jones movies, James bond and the like but thanks to you Kevin and D Guest i have acquired some stonking titles and hopefully a few more later to make up the last of my free space. so i am proud to be a film snob [Wink]

As for fade, i am in the process of moving titles on, including a Sweeney and minder episode on 16, personally,for me, i am happy with films if the fade is in very early stages but dont wish to keep anything red or pink. These sales will continue to fund any new purchases.

Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on March 14, 2018, 06:14 PM:

re films I have films from the 1930s and still as good now I have bought films from kevin and all been first class and I have sold him as many to .I think the biggest part is how look after them at the end of the day its your choice what you do with them

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 14, 2018, 06:48 PM:

Any film worth showing should be in the best condition possible,I used to show films at the local school some years ago and made sure everything shown was perfect,most of the films I've ever binned started at this time,I was always looking for new titles and the 200 and 400ft Disney's were always popular but finding unfaded titles became a mission at times,I soon built up a collection but did end up with a few faded purchases,those binned were the sort of thing you find all over eBay and see in abundance at every film fair so no loss there,400ft Star Wars (you know the rare one) I've had quite a few red prints of this and again still loads around,these I just wouldn't watch and being films that were produced in vast numbers it's no loss,Mark

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 14, 2018, 09:44 PM:

Well after this topic, it might be time for Doug to change my profile picture...to this one [Smile]

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 15, 2018, 02:52 AM:

Graham,
Don't bother changing the picture to that,use the picture of the bin bag instead!! Ha ha. Mark.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 15, 2018, 03:01 AM:

Mike
I wonder how many posting on this topic recognise that still from Father Ted. One of my all time favourite comedy series. Quite pertinent to this thread too in a way.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 15, 2018, 04:24 AM:

Of course anyone can do what they like with their own property. If I was going to get rid of a print for any reason, or dump a projector in a landfill, I would just do it privately, I don't need to advertise the fact, or take photos. If my wife saw me taking pictures and asked what I was doing, and I said I wanted to destroy a film, but I wanted to post the pictures on the internet for the world would see, she would think it was time to send for the men in white coats. Why do you need an audience? There must be better ways to get your 15 minutes of fame in this world.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 15, 2018, 05:00 AM:

It seems like a perfectly valid topic to me. Let's say there was a forum oriented towards pet care and somebody started a thread about having to put one down. Granted, it's not exactly "I got a new puppy!" on the happiness scale, but for better or worse, it's part of the process. You may as well talk about it.

If you are in this hobby long enough, along with the treasures it's natural to accumulate some crap. It takes up room. It leads to chaos. It becomes a burden. It's what pushes people across the hobbyist/hoarder line.

It isn't even always voluntary. Sooner or later somebody is cleaning out an attic or basement and if you don't politely decline, their crap becomes yours.

Sooner or later you have to thin the herd. It's better if you can find somebody who wants it, but the worst of it isn't of use to anyone.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 15, 2018, 08:57 AM:

You would think Graham had posted a picture of himself drowning a sack full of fluffy kittens the way some of you are harping on about it.

He has made, and continues to make, this forum a constantly interesting and informative place to read and respond to.

Perhaps the men in white coats may be of better use sent out to help those showing the obvious signs of hoarder syndrome, almost unable to open their front doors due to so much precious clutter and crap they just cannot bear to part with, poor dears.

Kevin

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 15, 2018, 09:04 AM:

Kevin,

Do you have a copy of "A Thousand Cuts"?

Each chapter is some view of film collecting, some good, some not so much. Some are these are tales of middle aged and later men living in houses full of film and equipment. A lot of it is filling the rooms where their wives and kids used to live. You might have to turn sideways climbing the stairs to avoid an avalanche.

-and in every case it started with just one item too many.

I'm keeping my copy available and have vowed to read it every couple of years!

Graham is one certainly of the good guys in this hobby. If I ever get to New Zealand I'd feel bad if I didn't get to meet him.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 15, 2018, 09:28 AM:

Hello Steve

Thank you for the info I recall the book was mentioned on here some time ago and I had forgotten about it - will track a copy down soon.

The floor to ceiling full of films in every room scenario might seem great in theory from the owning plenty to watch angle, but in practice it ruins the lives of those around the collector.

For reasons of the family's privacy I won't upload any pictures but I have seen pics of a whole house full, every single room, of films and cine gear of all types, to the point where only one room was still safely accessible - it was only cleared out after the collector passed away and must have been horrendous for any family or friends to visit the person, let alone to live with them.

Kevin

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 15, 2018, 09:57 AM:

Kevin Clark wrote

You would think Graham had posted a picture of himself drowning a sack full of fluffy kittens the way some of you are harping on about it.

He has made, and continues to make, this forum a constantly interesting and informative place to read and respond to.

Totally agree Kevin!!

I know a collector who lives in a house full in every room from floor to ceiling with films,it is a real site to see it and a fine example of collecting gone mad,if you like the smell of vinegar it's worth a visit!!!Mark

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on March 15, 2018, 10:07 AM:

Robert,

I find Graham's posting to be completely reasonable and interesting. I'm sure the Film-Tech Landfill Forum would appreciate it also.

Doug

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 15, 2018, 10:24 AM:

There's the aspect of it when it gets so far beyond control that people find it overwhelming.

Let's say there are a thousand cans of film and only 50 of them are real jewels. The day comes to move that collection on, there's a decent chance the 50 will join the 950 in the dumpster.

-maybe if it had stayed to just 75 or a hundred the 50 would have had a fighting chance.

We cleaned out a family member's house last year and as much as we tried to we still had to throw out more stuff than we wanted to. A lot of it was perfectly usable, but how many dining room tables do you really need? How likely are you to run into somebody who just happens to need one? I've been through this process at least twice and it's sad how much our "valuables" just wind up getting hauled away.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 15, 2018, 11:16 AM:

MIKE!!

Love that photo of Father Ted!

It was such a shame when "Ted" died right after the completion of that 3rd season. So sad!

I once thought of having printed up a bunch of T shirts of Father Jack Hackett for President of the U.S. Have a big picture of him snarling on the front and this printed up on the back ...

"Feck! Arse!! GIRLS!! DRINK DRINK DRINK!!!"

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 15, 2018, 12:22 PM:

Despite my earlier tongue in cheek post I still think Graham is doing the right thing by destroying junk prints.

Red or faded or fading films are junk prints.

My son lives in a high rise flat and it is very amusing to reel hundreds of feet of film from a spool to the ground below from his window. All you have to do is bundle the film into a black plastic rubbish sack where it belongs. This is very quick and humane demise for such prints. [Big Grin]

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 15, 2018, 01:25 PM:

You can't have enough films says Avid Collector.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 15, 2018, 05:14 PM:

Reading through all the comments...thanks everyone [Smile]

When Kevin and others here talked about hoarding, I certainly agree it can be a serious problem that effects others around them as well. I have watched programmes on TV and the effects of it on the family are terrible, they become so obsessive they just wont let go of anything.

Taking badly run of the mill faded prints "unless the content is really rare" out of circulation, can only improve the chances of collectors here and elsewhere, who have fading prints of a particular title, can only make it much easier in the long run to find a replacement in better condition.

Robert the people in white coats you refer to are more likely to take away, someone who is sitting watching a badly faded print of "Star Wars"....tell me... would you watch it?, you ask "Why do you need an audience""...well I dont... "15 minutes of fame"...are you kidding [Roll Eyes]

Mike...I remember that Father Ted episode, they were protesting outside a cinema if I remember right [Big Grin]

....the "meaning" behind that photo you posted is I am afraid spot on [Wink]

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on May 02, 2018, 12:08 AM:

Taking Steve Advice on cutting back [Smile]

Fellow film collector Pat called in today, with one empty car. I said to him, would you like a couple of trailers mmmmm he thought [Wink]

Opened the garage door and before he could change his mind, dumped six full boxes of 35mm trailers all in excellent condition by the way in his car, not only that, but some features as well. Great to get rid of some this stuff and make some room...its almost a relief [Big Grin]

...poor Pat [Wink]

I hope he goes easy on the brakes

PS....great news at long last I will have the loan of a Scope 35mm print of "The Last Starfighter"...pick it up next week [Cool]

Posted by Patrick Walsh (Member # 637) on May 02, 2018, 01:20 AM:

I managed to get home ok Graham! [Cool]

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on May 02, 2018, 01:21 PM:

Faded prints are great for training the young'uns on footage that's OK to damage.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on May 02, 2018, 01:41 PM:

They are great for that machine that's "new" or just had some major repair too.

A part of me really doesn't like getting "new" machines: it's like handing your car keys over to valet parking!

-you have no reason to be sure you won't get it back without a big gouge in it!

At least with some red or worse film, you'll be able to try it out and not damage anything you'll regret!

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on May 02, 2018, 02:24 PM:

Stuff that threads but can’t be screened will always make great leaders. My previous post on “leaders tails and changeovers” will show how to make a good leader without countdowns.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on May 02, 2018, 03:30 PM:

Film is film, folks, they're not making much more of it. So offer it up for free if you want to get rid of it, but don't bin it. Even VS footage can have some limited practical value.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on May 02, 2018, 08:50 PM:

The reason I did not offer it for free is, as rightly stated by David Guest earlier on in this topic...Quote

"yes I think it would have sold people on e-bay are buying films of unknown content and getting over 100 pound for them"

If I was to give it away for free, who is to say that somewhere in the future that's exactly where it might land up...on e-bay.

For this hobby to have any future, badly faded prints and those with VS need to be destroyed otherwise, as a good friend of mine once said to me of film collectors are nothing more than junk collectors.

On a more amusing note though, I once went to a film convention, a raffle was drawn and I won a prize. YES I thought. I went up to receive a 16mm film. Thinking that's nice [Roll Eyes]

anyway as I walked back to my seat, another good friend of mine...yes I do have a few... was laughing at me and pointing at the film I was holding.

As I went past him he said, that was his old FADED print that he had got rid of years ago.....it had now done the rounds. Anyway I walked straight back to the stage, and said to the person that presented it to me....give it to someone else....and can I have the small box of chocolates instead. Which I later shared around to my good friend who had a good laugh at the time at my expense.

One would hope that somewhere along the line, that particular film would be taken out of circulation FOR good [Smile]

Folks do remember "film collecting" is only a hobby, its not life or death...enjoy the good stuff and get rid of the crap that's out there and we will all be better of. [Wink]

PS. I should add that thankfully so far with home movies....the stuff taken with a camera... I have not come across any signs of fade or VS with Kodachrome K40 and the like, still look fantastic. At the moment I have just finished putting together about 46 rolls of the stuff onto 800ft reels taken at the 1974 Commonwealth Games for a transfer to digital. The colors look great and as far as family home movies are concerned, those very important films look as good today, as when they were taken.

Posted by Oliver F. R. Feld (Member # 1911) on May 03, 2018, 12:20 AM:

„Folks do remember "film collecting" is only a hobby, its not life or death...“

Graham
To some people it’s more than only a hobby.
And this is the difference...
Passion is not the same as „a hobby“.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on May 03, 2018, 01:44 AM:

Blimy!!!
Great thread though. [Big Grin]

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on May 03, 2018, 04:40 AM:

Graham is very brave in destroying those faded prints. I have a couple of features that are affected but I would be loath to dump them, more likely give them to someone who just wants to run films. Of course these may be sold on one day, I can't control that.
Films with vinegar syndrome are another matter. These should be dumped as they can affect other acetate based stocks in close proxinity.
Having said that, it's scary to think of the sort of things your neighbours may have sorted away. Having worked in and around the film industry I've heard of several enthusiasts with stockpiles of nitrate prints. That puts even VS in the shade!

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on May 03, 2018, 04:56 AM:

I think due respect should be shown to anyone dealing with their own property in the manner they wish to do so - film collecting is a hobby, one of passion for some, one of pure entertainment and hands on joy for others, but also sadly one of hoarder syndrome 'can't bear to throw out the trash' torture for quite a few too.

Graham - that was a great gesture passing your films to Pat I'm sure he will love watching them in his cinema.

Pat - great to hear you got home safely - please tell me the make and model of the car you used as I could do with upgrading to a good workhorse motor later this year - if it can handle carrying that many heavy 35mm prints it will be ideal for me.

Kevin

Posted by Reese Williams (Member # 6432) on May 03, 2018, 08:06 AM:

it's cool

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on May 03, 2018, 12:57 PM:

Hey Reese - what's with all the short answers all over the forum? If what you have to say is about 5 words or less, it's not cool. This isn't Facebook where you need to "like" everyone's posts! Please make sure what you add contributes to the conversation!

So, back on topic:
I think Graham understands the difference between "passion" and "hobby" full well, and if you know his theater history PLUS his amazing home theater history, then you know the amazing evidence of that fact. If he thinks we're junk hoarders because tossing magentavision prints is against our religion, he's welcome to that opinion. I've sold such on eBay with full disclosure and kept few for myself. I'll never forget the pin-sharp print of "My Friend Flicka" on early Eastmancolor film that was amazing to behold on the big screen but was dying of VS and color death, and I didn't want to screen it for an audience. So someone got cheap film to play with. I digress.

Here's the point: to get rid of ALL red film eliminates about 2/3 of everything out there. I don't think all of it is junk, nor of zero usefulness; therefore, getting rid of it all is too extreme in my opinion.

Posted by Patrick Walsh (Member # 637) on May 03, 2018, 04:05 PM:

Just to reply to Kev's comments, my car is a SUZUKI SWIFT, very lightweight to drive and can as you can see haul a nice load of films! [Big Grin]

Pat

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on May 03, 2018, 09:36 PM:

Bill,

We've all been guilty of one word affirmative posts on occasion....Reese is brand new here, I'm sure he'll catch on.

Patrick,

The car is impressive but your "closet o' film" must be vast!

Doug

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on May 03, 2018, 09:47 PM:

Aye!

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on May 04, 2018, 12:06 AM:

.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on May 04, 2018, 03:18 AM:

Thanks Bill [Smile]

I think we will have to agree to disagree over what to do with those films [Smile]

This thread must hold some kind of record, of folk expressing there views about this subject, without the need for Doug to come on and delete any of it. [Smile]

It makes life interesting.

Doug...regarding Pat "closet o' film" I have seen it. I will ask him next time if I can take a photo of his secret stash [Wink]

...its really something [Cool]

Posted by Patrick Walsh (Member # 637) on May 04, 2018, 04:39 PM:

Doug.... not a CLOSET O FILM but a GARAGE O FILM!

[Big Grin]

Posted by Michael Lattavo (Member # 4280) on May 04, 2018, 04:53 PM:

Bill, I laughed out loud when I saw your last post, something I rarely do! That was a good one!

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on May 08, 2018, 01:23 PM:

Well folks here is that picture of Pats vast secret stash of films.

However the photo was taken on condition that I did not use a flash or turn the lights on.. [Wink]

Hope there is no Nitrate [Smile]

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on May 08, 2018, 01:34 PM:

OK, that is truly funny!

Hey, here's another use for faded film: home theater decor. Display a reel or three on the wall in an artistic style. FULL of film.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on May 08, 2018, 05:02 PM:

You would have to have a "VERY" understanding wife to do that one [Big Grin]

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on May 08, 2018, 06:14 PM:

True! Probably more than understanding... a willing accomplice.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on May 11, 2018, 11:51 AM:

I have just had an interesting conversation over the phone with a long time film collector here in the UK.

He has many contacts so he is in the know.

He has informed me that many many more of us here are simply binning faded and VS prints.

Also less of us are buying overpriced 16mm / 8mm prints of shorts and features and buying the DVD or Blu-Ray for projection instead because of the price.

It seems as if film sales are going to take a nose dive soon due to this and also because many of the "old timers" of film collecting are passing away to that projection room in the sky.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on May 11, 2018, 12:05 PM:

Yes David i agree, ive said for a long time that film prices wont stay at stupid prices for too many years. It's also obvious that some collectors are taking advantage now as some of the titles i have seen long term collectors selling are films that most true collectors would hold onto. I'm sure there are some titles that will always fetch a tidy sum.
You only have to look a flea bay to see some of the idiots trying to list crap at high start prices and they are on there time after time with no bites. 400ft super 8 films, untested and starting at £50-£100
I myself have bought a tidy amount of 16mm in the last 12 months and have got some superb films in very good condition for normal prices. You really dont have to pay over the odds and i will no longer buy anything with fade, not now you see the quality of the blu-ray and digital projectors on offer [Wink]

As for this thread, it's been a good read, i fully understand both arguments of the throwing away of films. If they are beetroot red then yes. If there is a small degree of fade, (which is now so common), i also understand people still getting enjoyment from it, as VS, i hope never to encounter it. We only two b/w films on 16mm so i will be keeping a nose on these.
While binning items is always a shame i guess it takes them out of circulation. Again, for me, as far as 16 is concerned i am only collecting a small amount of films and i will do my utmost to stick with later Agfa or LPP prints only. We one or two TV shows with some fade and i will decide on what we will do with these later on in the year.
At the end of the day these are just movies, if someone wanted to pay me £2000 for my print of T2 or star wars would i turn it down?

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on May 13, 2018, 04:41 AM:

Tom i agree with you. If someone out there wants to offer me silly money like £2000 for any of my prints i will gladly accept their offer. They can have it gladly . [Wink]

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