8mm Forum: Super slow film sales ...

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 19, 2019, 12:12 PM:

I have never ran into such slow film sales on ebay. Maybe one or two items selling in a whole month, instead of 10 to 15 items.

Fortunately, we aren't dependent on film sales, but I must admit, it has slowed my buying of films as I only buy when i have sold something.

My personal theory (which only holds water for us "Yanks"), is that with the changes to the tax laws in the U.S. a lot of people, (myself included), who were thinking that they would have a "resevior of cash" after tax time, actually find that for the first time, they are owing money. We were lucky, we got back a good deal, not as much as last year, but we did much better than a lot of other folks out there.

I have heard horror stories of folks having got back, last year, 10,000 and with the changes to the tax laws this year, when they thought they'd be getting back money, they actually OWE 10,000. EEK!

Anyway, that's my theory.

You're thoughts?

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on March 20, 2019, 02:14 AM:

Hi Osi. In the UK this last few weeks has been a flood of S8 sales mainly Derann prints most will be aware of it and the bidding frenzy which have to say was quite ludicrous at times only my view of it all. A few of us were chatting over the scene and concluded our money would be better spent ordering new releases instead of used prints most of which will have probably been scratched or gone pink. Depends what titles you want of course.

If I were coming to this hobby fresh I would be looking at new prints and perhaps supplement them with new old stock titles which often turn up un viewed for a bit of history.

The biggest reward this year thus far is watching one of my like new Mk 3 GS1200's go to a younger newcomer who I am still helping out with a little advice which I was also grateful for when I was young.

As far as film over hear its busy but I fear the business men in the trade will struggle to offer a good selection of used prints as a result of the prices going on the bay.

If I were a Super 8 dealer selling used films I would shift my sales more towards having new prints actually on the shelf to walk in and buy, after all the sky high price of vintage used films often going pink is not unlike that of a brand new film. Certainly the print quality of the latest releases is up with the best and I have never purchased a Stereo film that equals the quality of Steve O's recordings. Brilliant is a understatement.

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on March 20, 2019, 04:54 AM:

I feel Lee's remarks about the bidding "frenzy" on Ebay here in the UK as being "ludicrous," are probably aimed at the higher end of the film market. Certainly the direct reference to Derann would indicate this.

However, for us Ebay sellers offering our generally bog standard but nevertheless decent copies of films, I have to agree with Osi that there is a noticeable slowdown in sales... even over here.
I pride myself in offering prints at a sensible starting price (usually around £5/200' or 8 to £10/ 400') to attract buyers, not the, in my opinion, inflated starting prices of around £16/200' or even £35+ for a 400' which many do .
Even with my "attractive" prices, I am still noticing a slow down of purchases over the last year or so.

For Osi , he puts it down to their re-vamped tax system. For us, could it be that people are hesitating due to a certain nameless event that is expected to take place soon?

[ March 20, 2019, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: Melvin England ]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 20, 2019, 06:37 AM:

Personally i think the prices may bottom out before too long with exception of certain titles. Only my opinion though.some idiots are trying too hard by listing start prices at stupid levels.like 300 for watership down and 100 for a crappy 400 footer. Those clowns dont do the hobby any good at all.

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on March 20, 2019, 07:08 AM:

I saw the Watership Down one, too. And I think it was also initially advertised as a full feature, but has since been corrected.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on March 20, 2019, 07:20 AM:

When I saw it they seemed to think that 600ft was the full feature as both were quoted in the auction entry.

Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on March 20, 2019, 11:17 AM:

I suspect folk here are getting a little jittery seeing firms relocating and jobs beng lost. Buying from the states is getting pricey when you factor in shipping, and the age of stuff means the possibility of being landed with ‘less than the best’ is so much greater. Once upon a time I’d have grabbed almost anything on film but Blu-ray and a projector has made me less anxious to buy prints I used to be happy with. With no new prints or nearly new prints filtering through to keep the market bubbling, slow periods are probably inevitable.

Posted by Nigel Higgins (Member # 4312) on March 21, 2019, 12:45 PM:

Ok lets open this up a little.what kind of films or titles would people like to see on offer .i dont just mean the derann stuff hows about some extracts that still maintain good colour and condtion ir prehaps new old stock .over to you.

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on March 21, 2019, 03:18 PM:

For me, a few more 4x 400' at sensible starting prices.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 21, 2019, 04:34 PM:

Nigel, you ask a good question, it is a difficult one to answer though. Generally speaking, if i never bought another 8 or 16mm film ever again i would be forever happy with all that we have. There is still a hoard of films out there for sale that are still very good with great colours. Unfortunatly, but obviously, most serious collectors will hold onto there finest prints while sadly, many are coming along from collectors who are simply selling all or passing away.
I myself am only selling to buy at present but still buy the odd little reel of something. To be honest the 16mm items thats come our way has put a big brake on 8mm due to superior image quality of 16.Something else new to us is the fact we have bought more from friends on here or via the forum. Prices are better but also the fact that the three i buy from,(including Nigel), view the films all the way through before selling and to date have not had any disappointments from any of them. Descriptions are always spot on. Kevin Clark has sourced me some fantastic 16mm movies and a few accessories, the man is exceptionally generous and also very knowledgeable and has shared a lot of advice and help.
As for what i'd like to see, one or two of my wants on 16 and on super 8, maybe a couple of good trailers and Platoon, Predator and a decent copy of a tale of two cities. 8 or 16.
There are probably many more but i cant think of them at present but here is a reminder of my 16mm wants
A Bridge too Far
The Untouchables, (K Costner)
Trading Places, (theatrical only)
The Usual suspects,
Scrooged, (Bill Murray), but theatrical release as the TV version is always cut,
Full Metal Jacket,Dirty Dancing,The Thing, (Carpenter version),
Seven,Home Alone Home alone 2 Lock stock and two smoking barrels, A Fish called Wanda Batman 1989 (M Keaton)
Plains Trains and Automobiles.

It still makes me feel like theirs something weird about all of this, we can all have virtually any movie we want on blu ray for a few quid with today's excellent digital projectors, yet we still want our cine films with of there problems, projectors that require expensive maintenance with parts being virtually impossible to buy new, (& i have also received some second hand parts that P****** me right off as i only found out this week when i went to have one fitted a year after purchasing). Films that are often way over priced and not always up to scratch, no pun intended. For me cine is just something i always wanted from a very young age at primary school after watching the teachers operating the 16mm machines. When i view films on my own i still turn around a look at my projectors going and smile to myself. [Wink]

Despite everything, i for one will never ever pay the ridiculous prices for any titles no matter what. On the other hand, (typical human), i will be happy to sell and if my films fetch the cash then i will be happy to take, however, i start my sales at sensible prices, not the half wit prices some people list for, and very sadly, some of the greedy lister's are forum members and i see the same film go up time and time again, some people just dont learn and THEY are the ones who will ultimately change films sales from slow to dead still as no one will want to pay for a film that last for 30 minutes and starts on ebay at £300.
For me, as long as these reels,(& my my Brother four),continue to turn i will be happy to keep our cine. but unless the films i can buy are reasonable then we will be a lot more choosy. As time goes on films sales will no doubt become slower as they become harder to get. The one thing i think everyone must notice is how much utter crap there is for sale on 16mm in particular. For every decent title there must be hundreds of trash titles. (in my opinion) [Wink]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on March 22, 2019, 06:39 AM:

The ridiculous prices sought for some films clearly displays ignorance of the market - and what genuinely has considerable value - on the part of sellers, but I'd suggest viewing this as a bit of light relief, so long as such listings are a futile waste of time and not occasionally rewarded.

At least some of the high prices paid seem to reflect a lack of awareness regarding new releases, but that's understandable. Even as a keen collector who has been seeking out new product for decades, I'm hazy regarding what has become available in the last two or three years. E.g. if ANY new trailers have actually been printed on Super 8 in this period, other than the 'Back to the Future' promo, please let us know, because they haven't (e.g.) appeared in the Super 8 Film Review section of Film Collector. I've always considered this Forum to be one of the best sources of information.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on March 22, 2019, 10:21 AM:

Film sales all depends on the release and the price! Lower prices better sales! I talk to a lot of collectors! And they complaint about these film prices! They put it this way! If a new feature cost 1200.00 If you do your homework right you can bring home a LOT of used films home at that price! And they are right!

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 22, 2019, 11:49 AM:

... and then, of course, there are those wonderful deals, not everything is outrageously priced.

I just bought a 400ft reel with both Fox and the Hound extracts, which were printed on low fade stock, for 8.50, and they even come with the original reels and boxes, so I not only have the two digests spliced onto one 400ft reel, i could always place them back on they're original reels and in they're original boxes ...

So, deals to certainly be had out there at incredible prices! [Smile]

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on March 22, 2019, 12:40 PM:

Search and you shall find!

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on March 23, 2019, 03:04 AM:

Above agreed and all good thoughts.

Less we forget that smaller TV networks do buy film prints for good money eventually broadcasting and DVD issues as well. Big money to be had from what could be a original small purchase price.

8mm wise. Having done many re dubs over the years I'm getting some LPP prints in with noticeable worn mag stripe, at present looking at Raise the Titanic with levels fading in and out. Worn oxide on these is becoming a growing problem but at least some selling are honest enough to mention it when advertising.

I do still believe the way forward is to embrace the new releases which trickle through if you are able.

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on March 23, 2019, 04:07 PM:

I think it depends on titles. Lately, there have been crazy prices on auctions. A 200 foot extract from Matrix Reloaded that went for $163. North by Northwest feature for over $800. An optical sound feature, Little Shop of Horrors, over $1000. Of course, anything Star Wars, the Revenge of the Jedi trailer went for over $80.And the last 40 minutes of Return of the Jedi went for $386.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on March 23, 2019, 05:02 PM:

Its good to see that film sells! And at crazy prices!

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on March 24, 2019, 12:50 AM:

Probably right Leon at least it does show the market if fluid and it could be the other way round. [Eek!]

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