8mm Forum: Question about video projectors

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Posted by Bob Pucci (Member # 8) on May 27, 2019, 09:35 AM:

I have a question about video projectors.How much would someone spend on one just to show a DVD outside and what brand.Thanks.

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on May 27, 2019, 09:45 AM:

Hello Bob,

I don't know if this is answering to your question , I have got a Benq W1090 a few months ago, this is a great machine (and simple to use) !! ....... For 549 Euros around (Sometimes less) . Technical Features are outstanding for this price. Some machines much more expensive are not so good.

From my side, Only used for DVD, no games, No 3D at this time

UPDATED ON 05JUNE19.

No "Rainbow effect" to report at this time.
If possible, ask the vendor a demonstration for different projectors but with same DVD (your reference movie)

[ June 05, 2019, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on May 27, 2019, 04:04 PM:

Hi

my subject Ive owned nearly every make at some time since 2004.

Any recent Epson video projector will give you all the light you need for an outdoor show up to easily an 8ft screen.

Im from U.K but should easily get a great LCD p/j for around $600 - 700 or so.

You wont go wrong.

Mark [Wink]

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on May 27, 2019, 05:09 PM:

I have the Panasonic AX200U

It is a very good projector and will handle anything I do with it another collector had one and gave me a demonstration and I was hooked

You can find used ones on eBay in good condition for under 300

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on May 27, 2019, 05:15 PM:

Hi Bob

Mark and Chip have made excellent recommendations Epsom and Panasonic have both served me well with no issues.

If you can get one via Amazon or Ebay it would be worth while.

Mike

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on May 27, 2019, 05:39 PM:

I agree with Chip and Mike about Panasonic and Epson, both are 3 panel LCD projectors. I have a Panny AE4000U which gives a stunning picture, and my grandson has an Epson 3100 which is also excellent and very bright. IMO stay away from any DLP projector because of the risk of rainbow artifacts, which can really bother some people.

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on May 27, 2019, 09:13 PM:

Hey Paul did you know that YOU WERE THE ONE who showed me the Panasonic. I think yours was right before the one I got as far as current model.

I do run super 8 much more than Videos but that's just the way I am.

Posted by John Hermes (Member # 1367) on May 28, 2019, 12:50 AM:

"IMO stay away from any DLP projector because of the risk of rainbow artifacts, which can really bother some people."

I have an Optoma 1080p projector with a 6x-speed color wheel and in ten years NO ONE has ever complained and said they saw RBE.

Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on May 28, 2019, 01:12 AM:

Hi John

Unfortunately, I had 2 DLP projectors over the years and both top end machines...sad to say I experienced the "rainbow" effect...its a horrible sensation...but I was the only one who could see it??

Anyway, that is why I have stuck with LCD.

Regards

Mark

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on May 28, 2019, 02:09 AM:

I only see that effect when moving my eyes from one side of the screen to the other quickly. I suspect also, like flicker, it depends on the screen brightness.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 28, 2019, 03:58 AM:

My first LCD video projector landed in 1989 as was the old black Sharp but popular at the time also quite a lump mainly used for presentations out and about.

Been through just a few over the years and wound up favouring the DLP Benq machines proving reliable and a good performer for the money. When purchased my latest machine came with a free 5 year warranty never used and I also purchased a spare lamp will we will probably pop in for Christmas shows.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on May 28, 2019, 08:40 AM:

The 3 panel DLP projectors are not a rainbow problem as they do not use a spinning color wheel, but these are very high end projectors. All other single panel DLP projectors have the potential to produce visible rainbow artifacts for some small segment of the population. Best advice is to test run a DLP projector before you buy it.

Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on May 28, 2019, 09:22 AM:

When I bought my first projector the rainbow effect sent me mad. I wrote to the managing director of the maker in the States to complain. He wrote back and explained the effect (which I'd never heard of) and told me that the faster your brain processes information the more you see the effect. Neither my wife or daughter saw anything. So, avoid dlp projectors. I have an Epsom. Can't speak highly enough of them

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on May 28, 2019, 09:46 AM:

Epson makes their own LCD panels, which are also used by other manufacturer's, but presumably Epson keeps the cream of the crop for themselves. Panasonic have not come out with a new home theater projector for several years, the last one that I know of is the PT-AE8000, which is an exceptional projector. Panasonic still makes business projectors and high brightness projectors for large venues.
You can't go wrong with Epson.

Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on May 28, 2019, 01:47 PM:

Hi all,

interesting thread - and I have to say..I will always stay with LCD..and the new Epsom I have - absolutely fantastic with full 3D.

I originally started off in 1981 with one of those massive Sony Video Projectors..floor standing jobs cost me £1000 back in the day from a bar that closed down locally, they were a big thing for bars at that time.. it was quality furniture with mirror projection 60" curved silver screen...when did you say you got your first one Lee..? Lol..

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on May 28, 2019, 02:01 PM:

The current domestic technologies are;

Single Chip DLP machines which use a spinning colour wheel to break down the illuminating light source into essentially RGB and then bounce it off the Texas Instruments Digital Mirror Device (with variations) and thus produce an on screen colour image.

Problem has always been that you see a constantly changing colour image as its colour components upgrade one by one on screen to produce the colour spectrum.

Sadly, most of us can see it's "trick" and are prone to notice the rainbow effect, even with a 6 x speed colour wheel.

Although, DLP does have very fast response time, so a smooth image with regard to on screen movement.

3 chip DLP machines do away with all this nonsense and provide a stable colour image, but are very expensive. Your local cinema probably uses one.

Single chip / colour wheel machines are a cost cut, and a domestic response to early LCD technology which still hangs on.

LCD essential employs three LCD panels to respond to RGB. Early versions were prone to dust on the panels (DLP always used a sealed optical housing) and could only produce "black level" by closing all three panel pixels. Now, as such, they could only ever produce grey as black, so contrast was average (much, much better with todays Panasonic machines).

So, for years you have these competing techs with both pros and cons.

Hence why a lot of us stuck with film!

LCOS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon) technology uses a combination of the wisdom.

It is currently used by Sony and JVC. It employs 3 reactive LCD chips, but, the light source is essentially bounced off of the three chips (always 3 chips to provide a constant colour on screen image into the lens) and produces very film like images.

Sony and JVC use competing technologies, however, JVC's LCOS is by far the better.

They call it D-ILA.

However, it struggles to produce very bright images in ambient / daylight scenarios, but in a dark room is by far the most cinematic.

"Digital" projection is so different today than when many of us film nuts threw stupid money at trying to replicate our favourite media back in the day with "video" based tech. DVD was always a limited compromise. HD (HD-DVD) Blu-ray was always the answer to a decent projection source.

So, today, we have a choice of totally acceptable cheap, bright, one off projection for a few hundred quid, or experience a more cinematic / filmic digital presentation for a bit more investment...hmmm...sounds just like choosing a super 8 projector back in the day.

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on May 28, 2019, 06:37 PM:

Video Projectors: The other side of owning one.

Bob Pucci recently asked for recommending a video projector. The replies were interesting. I’d like to change it up a bit, and ask this question. What about the inputs and how to select them.

I like the video projector I have, the older Panasonic AX-200-U. It does a lot of things I do like. The only two things I don’t like is the nasty on screen message when you power down. It asks if you want to power down. Why does it do this when yes, I am pressing the button to power it down!

The other thing it does that I do not like is what it doesn’t do. It does NOT have random access to the inputs. For example let’s say I am in component mode and I want to switch directly to HDMI 1. Well, it doesn’t do that.

To go from component to HDMI1, I have to cycle through all of the inputs after component and before HDMI1. And that goes the same for aspect ratios.

In my career I was taught to go from mono to stereo, and from flat to scope in an instant to give only the best presentation for the audience. I’m referring to my 35 years as a cinema projectionist. And yes I know these video projectors are made for home and they are going to be high tech up to a certain point.

So dealing with this stubborn issue, I found a way to solve it.

First, I choose component input on the projector and connect from a switchbox direct to the projector input. Once set it means I only turn the projector on. I do not touch the inputs on the projector.

Next, I run three DVD players (2 standard def and 1 Blu-ray) into the switchbox.

Now, I set each of the DVD players to a specific aspect ratio. The first SD player is 4 x 3 letterbox. The 2nd SD player is 16 x 9. The Blu-ray is 16 x 9 maximum resolution. Load the disc into the player of which the disc is formatted.

So when running the discs, I can simply press the preferred button on the switcher, and the aspect ratio and the input is selected immediately.

I add a small flat screen monitor to the setup with its own switch box and connect the players via yellow composite. Handy when cueing up a disc to first frame via chapter selection, or cueing up a feature disc to first frame near the end of a homemade trailer disc.

So like my super 8 or 16mm, I have DVD changeovers to boot.

As for that on screen power down message. I stop that from going to the screen with a standard open/close 35mm changeover shield. The message is still there. But it goes on the shield just one inch out from the projector lens. Never on the screen.

Food for thought depending on how creative the rest of you are feeling.

~ Chip Gelmini ~

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on May 28, 2019, 08:13 PM:

All good recommendations from Chip. Also worth mentioning, if you hook up all the video and audio inputs directly into a modern AV/Receiver(with just a single HDMI cable going up to the digital projector) you can label each input electronically so that it appears on the AVR display,and you do all the signal switching to the projector at the AV/R So I have the following inputs displayed on my AVR display: SONY BR, Panasonic DVD, CD, FM, SUPER 8. As far as aspect ratio goes, the Panasonic AE4000 and many other medium cost projectors such as the higher end Epson's have motorized zoom and focus with lens memory functions. This way you can zoom and focus academy 4:3, widescreen 16:9, CinemaScope 2.35:1, and any other aspect ratios to the individual screen size you want and store it all in memory. So when I have say a Cinemascope video, I just press Cinemascope on my remote and the picture zooms out to the full 10ft width of my screen, automatically focusses and shifts up/down to center the picture perfectly where it needs to be. So the lens memory feature is a great thing to get for a professional looking presentation.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on May 29, 2019, 08:50 AM:

Single chi DLP is like Kinemacolor in its display (colour sequential) and the moon landings colour TV. In cact I remember a DIY article on how to convert a Small screen B&W TV to colour with a spinning colour filter disc and changes to the electronics!!!

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on May 29, 2019, 01:50 PM:

Sounds like Baird's original spinning disc mechanical TV scanning system! [Big Grin]

It used to be that DLP projectors had a significant contrasr advantage over LCD projectors. I'm not sure if that is still the case as LCD projectors now have excellent contrast ratios. I have seen a huge contrast improvement on my 2014 Panny AE4000 compared with my existing 2004 Panny AE700.
The early DLP projectors were infamous for rainbow artifacts and a significant portion of the population could see them, and a small proportion of those reported headaches, dizziness, nausea, and even seizures. I think improvements in the color wheels have greatly reduced, but not entirely eliminated, these issues.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on May 30, 2019, 02:44 AM:

Paul, I agree that the recent Panasonic LCD projectors are excellent.

If you saw the rainbow effect on older DLP's, you'll still see it.

Granted that faster colour wheels reduce the effect, but it's still there.

Actually, as Texas Instruments developed Dark Chip 2,3,4, etc. the contrast improved, as in the blacks were darker, but imo they started to loose shadow detail as well.

Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on May 30, 2019, 12:22 PM:

Hi all

I will never forget that rainbow effect...Im so surprised in hindsight that they could get away with it???

I think a lot of people who invested in DLP tried to convince themselves that they could not see it??

In fact I'm sure of that as ive talked to a few who originally invested in DLP and then moved to LCD..

Cheers

It was a [Big Grin]

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on May 30, 2019, 12:54 PM:

Remember the £30,000 video projector that couldn’t match 8mm. Where’s that machine and collector now?

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on May 30, 2019, 01:34 PM:

Mark, I could see it, but quite honestly back 20 years ago, it was so much better to put up with it than the greyed out dust covered crap that was LCD.

Of course things have changed enormously.

I still believe LCOS is the better system by far.

(I recently ran a reel of Derann's "Aladdin", which I haven't seen for some years - it was like HD! Put that into the context of the early 90's and I'm not surprised so many of us loved real film).

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on May 30, 2019, 07:21 PM:

Yes there is literally no comparison between digital projectors today and 20 years ago. Remember when it was like looking through chicken wire? Today's high definition projectors, combined with a blue ray player gives extraordinary quality picture and sound, comparable or even better than the local cinema. And now we have 4K Blu Ray players and projectors which takes it all to a new level.
I was in BestBuy today and they now have an 82 ins 8K Oled flat panel on display. Where's it all going? I don't know, but I do know that for me the joy and fascination of cine projection will always be there no matter how incredible digital displays get.

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on June 05, 2019, 07:49 AM:

Hey Bob

Have we answered your questions? [Big Grin]

Posted by Bob Pucci (Member # 8) on June 05, 2019, 10:34 AM:

Hi Chip

You have and then some.

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